Trauma and Triumph: How Exercise Can Aid in Recovery | Trainers Talking Truths

Listen to this Podcast Episode

In this episode of Trainers Talking Truths, we welcome back Angel, a fitness and wellness expert, who shares her journey into the industry. We then dive into a difficult topic, trauma, and discuss what it is and how it can affect someone's ability to exercise. Angel shares her insights on how individuals can overcome trauma-related obstacles and how specific types of exercise can aid in recovery.

We also explore the importance of community support in exercise and trauma recovery. For those new to exercise and looking to incorporate it into their trauma recovery journey, Angel provides helpful tips and resources. Tune in for a thoughtful and informative conversation on how exercise can play a role in overcoming trauma.

Introduction:

Welcome the Trainers Talking Truths. This is an ISSA podcast, dedicated to exploring the fitness industry, and uncovering the whys and hows of personal training. To do that, we'll talk directly to the industry experts and certified trainers. We'll dig into fitness programming, business tactics, nutrition, and more. You'll even hear from current training clients, who offer insight from the other side. We've got the fitness industry covered, so turn up the volume, and enjoy the drive.

Jenny Scott:

We never know everything about our clients. One thing that's largely true, many of our clients have experienced some sort of trauma in their lives, and many are still dealing with it today.

Join me, as I have a very important conversation with special guest, returning guest, Angel DeSantis. Angel is a vocal trauma survivor, who has dedicated her life to yoga practice, and helping others understand themselves, and cope with life traumas. Don't worry, we don't get too doomy and gloomy, though this topic can be pretty heavy. Angel sheds light on what trauma is, how it can manifest in the human body and mind, and how we, as fitness professionals, can be a major key to helping someone process, and liberate their physical and mental restrictions. As always, thanks for listening, and enjoy the show.

Jenny Scott:

Hello, world, and welcome back for another ISSA podcast, Trainers Talking Truths.

It's Jenny Scott here with you. I'm going to be your only host today, flying solo, because we actually have a really important topic to talk about today. It's going to relate back to yoga. We have an amazing guest, who's decided to come back, and join us. So excited to have Angel with us again.

But yoga has so many transformative properties, it's an amazing practice. For those of you guys who practice it, I think you already know this, and for anybody who's just getting into it, you will see.

But today we're going to be talking about overcoming trauma with yoga. We have with us, Angel, and she is a mental health advocate, yoga teacher, cult survivor, storyteller, and creator of the Process by Angel, which uses guided self-inquiry to stimulate brain development.

We're so happy to have you back with us, Angel, but before we get started today, I did want to offer a little bit of a trigger warning, because today we will be speaking about trauma, which means different things to different people, but it's an all too real experience for a lot of people. So welcome back, Angel.

Angel DeSantis:

Thank you.

How did you get into fitness and wellness?

Jenny Scott:

So glad to have you. Now, can you remind our listeners a little bit about how you got into fitness and wellness?

Angel DeSantis:

Yeah, so I came to fitness and wellness through yoga, through Ashtanga yoga, and through Core Power yoga, which are very opposing systems of practice. But they both got me to the same end, which was the last pose in every yoga practice, is Shavasana, and that started to reset my nervous system, so I kept coming back, and so I loved it. I practiced it a lot, and then I took teacher training, so my entry into the fitness world was through yoga.

Jenny Scott:

That's awesome, and then you've been practicing ever since? You're still teaching, right?

Angel DeSantis:

I am. I still teach out in Los Angeles, and I practice more than yoga now, but for a while, for about, I'm going to say, like five to seven years, it was almost exclusively a yoga practice, and then now I've added weight training, and body movement, and just multiple modalities of movement and strength, but I still love yoga. It's my touchstone, I still teach it, and it's the thing that brings me the most joy to practice, and to teach.

What is trauma?

Jenny Scott:

Love it. You have a very well-rounded practice it sounds like, which is amazing.

So we're here to talk about a tough topic, which is, trauma. Angel, can you describe to us, what is trauma?

Angel DeSantis:

Yeah, so trauma is an emotional response. There are a lot of different definitions, but it's a lasting emotional response from either one distressing events, or multiple distressing events, and it makes it fairly difficult to self-regulate, or to stay present, and kind of be okay with what is happening right now.

There's a lot of thinking, the past is going to repeat itself, and being really fearful of that, so living in a fearful state from the past, which is no longer true in your present, but you can't seem to detach it, or you are constantly worried about the future, and you're trying to avoid a painful future.

But either way, you're never present, you're never here with enough feeling like you can keep yourself safe and alive in the present moment.

So there's also a component of, numbing to trauma, where you numb, emotionally, spiritually, you numb your curiosity, and you're more concerned with existing safely, and keeping yourself safe, so it's more like life avoidant, more so than actually being curious, and challenged, and excited about life, so it's a different way of existing.

If someone shares that they’ve experienced trauma in their past, how do you address that?

Jenny Scott:

Gotcha. So I have a random question for you though too, but as it relates to being a fitness professional, or for those people listening who are fitness professionals, if you come across a client or an individual that maybe has had some trauma in their past, or reveals something to you, whether if they talk to you about it, how do you usually address that? Is that something you've ever dealt with?

Angel DeSantis:

Yeah, so because I've been through trauma as well, and I'm very open about my trauma, people will then share things with me. And my number one tip is, always, to thank them for sharing with you, because if they share something with you, especially if they haven't shared it before, that means that they feel safe with you, and I think you immediately have the responsibility to keep their story to yourself, to keep it safe, to maintain the safety that they felt, and to also encourage them to get help beyond you, because we are fitness trainers, but we're wellness trainers. We want everyone to be well, but we are not mental health professionals.

So I think maintaining the safe space, and honoring the fact that they told you their story, acknowledging, saying, "I see you, I'm sorry this happened. Thank you for sharing, and if you would help, I can help you research a way to get help." Or something like that.

Just to really see them as a human being, I think, is the most validating thing for somebody with trauma, because a lot of times, part of the numbing, is that you feel like you have to carry this big burden, and you carry it around with you, and when you're in a space where they share something with you, it's the first time that they're starting to put it down, and I think it's important to take yourself out of the equation completely, and just think, "How can I help them put this down?" It's not, "Oh good, they felt safe with me, they think I'm special," or, "Oh, good, I wonder if I can get more out of them, make them feel more safe?"

It's never about you. It is about encouraging the other person to come to life, and how can you do that? Is it through helping them find resource? Is it through changing the languaging, and the way that you teach them, if you know that they have a traumatic past? Maybe you stop saying things like, "Just do it," or "Come on, don't be a this, or don't be a that." It's like how can you facilitate a safe space for this person, so they continue to feel safe, and continue to come to life.

Jenny Scott:

That's amazing. And so would you say a good follow up question after that you've spoken with them, might be, "How can I support you?"

Angel DeSantis:

Absolutely.

Jenny Scott:

Is it a fair question?

Angel DeSantis:

It's a fair question, and it also elicits from them, the response that they need help. It requires them to acknowledge that they now need to give you a piece of information of how to help them, which, if we're digging deep into the psychological world, it does also require them to want to help themselves.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah.

Angel DeSantis:

So I think it's a very good question of just like, "Hey, when you know how I can support you, let me know, and I will try to support you." So that gives room for them to acknowledge that, maybe they're not ready to ask for help, maybe this is the very first step of exposing something that they went through, and maybe after a few months they'll be like, "Hey, do you know anyone who does blank, blank, blank?" But just opening the door, that like, "Hey, I want to support you. I'm not sure how, but if you find out how, you let me know, and I'm going to try."

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, that makes perfect sense, because I actually think back, I've been doing this for 14 years now, and I can think of, specifically, a youth client that I worked with, and I still work with her to this day. Actually, I'm going to see her later this evening.

Angel DeSantis:

Nice.

Jenny Scott:

When she was in middle school, went through some stuff with her dad, specifically, and she told me a little bit, but her mom told me a lot, but it changes. Like her, her demeanor was so different.

And now she's a junior in high school, she is absolutely thriving, but she went through years, and years of therapy, and we've built a successful, amazing relationship between the two of us, where she trusts me, and she can talk to me about things, but I know what this little girl has been through.

How can trauma affect someone’s ability to exercise? How can they overcome that?

Jenny Scott:

And it's not just kids, it's absolutely adults who carry this with them, but how can trauma affect someone's ability? We know it affects their mood, their demeanor, things like that, their openness, how can it affect someone's ability to exercise, and how can they overcome that?

Angel DeSantis:

I think it can do it in multiple ways. I think, the main thing, is that you don't feel worthy of moving your body. You don't feel like your health is something worth fighting for. You might be doing exercise, because somebody said, "Hey, do exercise," but it's not internally motivated.

And I also think the thing that it affects the most, is your ability to hear what your body is saying. So a lot of times, I'm working with people with trauma, I'll see them sort of twinge, and I'll be like, "Is there pain there?" And they're like, "Yeah, but I'm just working through it." And I'm like, "No, okay, let's stop, because if there's pain, that's your body trying to tell you something. It's not something to ignore, and push through, it's something to acknowledge." But then it's like, "Well, I don't want to be weak."

"Well, you're not weak, you're getting a pain signal, and now we're going to listen to that, and we're going to work around it, we're going to rest it, or we're going to work on strength somewhere else in the body."

But the thing that I think it affects the most, is the inability to feel, or sense what is going on in the body, because generally, there is quite a big disconnect between what you think, and what you are willing to acknowledge about how you feel. Not just physically, but emotionally, mentally, sometimes if people are working really hard, or if they're in the yoga room, they're trying something, and it's not coming up. When people get that sort of emotional break, and they start crying, or something happens. It's not like they weren't feeling something, and all of a sudden they're feeling everything, it's that they're suppressing, suppressing, suppressing, suppressing, and they hit a point where they no longer can suppress it, and then it bursts open, and they have to acknowledge it.

But if you acknowledge it when it first comes up, then it won't burst at you. You can start to put a little release valve on it. So I think, knowing that, as a trainer, if you have somebody with a traumatic background, even if they haven't told you they have a traumatic background, if they do the kind of thing where they just put their head down, and push through pain, and ignore how they're feeling, chances are there is something along their life journey that has disconnected them from listening to the wisdom of their body as a viable source of information, and it's just teaching them that your body is a very viable, useful and intelligent source of information.

So having them retrain how to listen to their physical body.

Jenny Scott:

And I mean that retraining is not going to happen overnight.

Angel DeSantis:

No.

Jenny Scott:

It can take years for some people.

Angel DeSantis:

So I think it's a slow drip. I think trauma compounds, and the healing also compounds.

Are there types of exercise that can be helpful for people recovering from trauma?

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, absolutely. So we already know we're here to talk about yoga, but are there some specific types of exercise that you can pinpoint that are particularly effective for people who are recovering from trauma?

Angel DeSantis:

So what I have found for people recovering from trauma, is you have to make them feel safe. So if I know that I'm working with, and I've worked with, women's groups, or women coming out of abusive relationships, like domestic shelters, things like that. When somebody has come from a traumatic place, you have to tell them exactly what you're going to do, and then you have to stick to it.

So I had found that HIIT work is really good, because I will say, "We are going to do four minutes of hard work. Here, look here, this is the timer. I'm going to set it here, so you can watch it," and I'll have them do a Tabata. And I'm like, "It's 20 seconds of work, and it's 10 seconds off, and you can watch the red and the green, and I'm going to keep it really simple."

And what that does, it allows them to feel safe in the environment, and then they can do the work, or not, but they understand where they are, and the space that you're holding for them.

I also say this in my yoga classes, of like, "I'm going to teach you through this very specific sequence. I'm going to tell you exactly what to do, so do exactly as I say, unless you don't feel like it, and if you want to take a nap, take a nap, because this is just, you're just in this room, and so either you're going to do exactly as I say, and I'm going to guide you through, or you don't have to listen to me at all. I'm just a person saying things, and if you're here, because you needed an hour away from your children, and you're tired, then lie down, take a nap."

So, I think, removing the ego of being the trainer, or being the teacher, and understanding that you're a facilitator, and you would like for your clients, or your students, or whoever, you want them to have a good time. And it's not about them attaching the good time to you. It's about you creating a safe enough space that they feel like they can grow.

So, I think my tip for people who have not worked with anyone with trauma before, if you're going into it, you got to create a safe space. Tell them exactly what you want from them, and do not differ from that, because if you differ from it, then it sort of reminds them that like, oh, even if people try to be trustworthy, they're not trustworthy, people will lie to you, or-

Jenny Scott:

That's right.

Angel DeSantis:

I can't trust anyone. And one of the things that drives me crazy, crazy, crazy, is when I go to a class, and they're like, "Last three, last three, last three. Come on."

Jenny Scott:

Trainer Kelly.

Angel DeSantis:

No, stop. Say, "3, 2, 1."

But I think being really clear, and having a lot of integrity in your teaching, and not trying to be like, "Well, it's a surprise when I'm teaching," especially when it comes to people with trauma. Just tell them exactly what's going to happen, and also give them the freedom of, this is what we're going to do, but if you don't want to do it, we're not here for me, we're here for you, so you can stop me at any time.

Advertisement:

We've got another ISSA Rapid Review, coming your way.

Andrea Byers had this to say about our corrective exercise specialist. "This is a pretty tough course when it comes to the final exam, but worth it. The amount of information and the course layout is great."

Thanks, Andrea.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, so you bring up a really great point with things like, giving somebody a structure, telling them what's going to happen, and then again sticking to it, making sure that you follow exactly what you said you're going to do.

And I think this extends beyond people that have experienced trauma. It extends to pretty much most people. We're all different. We all operate slightly differently. There's things that make us crazy, when people say three, three, three, and you're like, "You already said three." And then some people are like, "I'm a clock person. If it's 12:00, and you told me we're starting at 12:00, you better be here at 12:00. Maybe a couple of minutes early." So just being aware of what that person needs.

And some people might verbally say, "I don't like this, or I need this from you." And some people won't, right? But we might have to pay attention to maybe the way that they respond to something, that they don't look very happy, and we did this, and ask, would you recommend asking follow-up questions? Was there something you didn't like about the structure? Was there something you didn't like about what we just did? How would you ask that?

Angel DeSantis:

I would say, "Is there anything you would like next time, or is there anything you want done differently?" It's not, "Did I do something wrong?" Because then they would have to say, "Yes, you did something wrong, here's what it is, and here's what I don't like."

And if they say all those things, then they're no longer in that trauma state, because it means you have worth, you're using your voice, you're happy to direct the room. But if somebody is in the trauma state, you'll say, "Hey, did I do something wrong?"

"No, everything's fine. Thank you. No, everything's fine." Ya know?

Jenny Scott:

Yeah.

Angel DeSantis:

But if you invite, "Hey, is there anything that you want to see next time, or is there any way that, is there any fun thing you want to add, or anything, any poses you really like, or any movements that you like, and want to add?" And so giving them the autonomy to contribute to their own healing, and say, "I actually really like this. I want to do more reps of that."

Simple. It doesn't require any sort of extra, necessarily, courage on their part, to tell you that, but it's about you being informed, and understanding how to communicate with the other person that has that barrier.

Because now that I have done a lot of healing work, if somebody says, "Oh, Angel, do a..." What is that CrossFit thing with the snatch and the lift? I forget what it's called.

Jenny Scott:

Which?

Angel DeSantis:

There's so many, but if you tell me to do that, I'm going to be like, "No, absolutely not. I refuse to do it, find something else." But that has come from a lot of work of understanding that I deserve to feel safe, understanding that my wants and needs matter, and I can use my voice, and I am not going to be in trouble if I tell you, "No, I don't like this, and I refuse to do it." There is going to be no repercussion back towards me. All of that had to be in place before I'm able to say, "No, I don't want to do that."

So it's about, again, facilitating the person across the table, being able to read their energy, taking yourself out of the equation, and just coming back to, how can I make this person's experience better?

How can physical exercise or movement help someone who has experienced trauma?

Jenny Scott:

Absolutely, that makes perfect sense.

And so we want to encourage people to come to us, whether you're a yoga teacher, whether you're teaching Pilates, or just doing resistance training with somebody, swimming pool, whatever it is, how can physical exercise or movement help someone who has experienced trauma?

Angel DeSantis:

So there's this wonderful book called, The Body Keeps the Score, and it talks about how your body remembers, and locks in states of being. And I have found that to be very true, and they've done a lot of studies on this, so I think any sort of movement, I think trauma, again, is numbing, and being stuck in a past state, or future state, but it's being stuck, and when you move you're, you're moving things.

You're getting new ranges of motions, you're trying new things, you're lifting a new weight, so you're moving energy through the body. And to this day, I won't squat. A free, Olympic squat, I won't do it, because the first time I tried it, I was with somebody who thought that the yelling at me would get me to do something, and I got stuck at the bottom, and I couldn't lift the weight. And my body remembers that, and it will not let me squat past a certain point. It just like-

Jenny Scott:

Wow.

Angel DeSantis:

And so I only do box squats, and other stuff.

But your body remembers, and it's really important to move, to try new modalities, to find out that your body is capable. And I think if you are starting a movement practice with somebody, you have, you start small, but invite as many groups of movement as possible.

So if they say, they want upper body fitness, great, do upper body fitness, but add in a couple of lower body stuff, because you want to have the full body understand that it works as a unit, and understand that it's capable, and understand growth across patterns, if that makes sense.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, that absolutely makes sense. And I love that idea that you're talking about, that the body remembers it remembers things, but I also think, to your point, reaching out and doing new things.

So for example, if somebody's never tried yoga, and we'll talk about that next, how yoga can actually help somebody focus, essentially, but trying new things, and realizing that you can do things.

Angel DeSantis:

Yeah.

Jenny Scott:

I actually did that last week in my yoga practice. On Sunday, we were doing something on our knees, which my knees are shot, they're all shot, and we were on our knees upright on a tall kneeling position, and I'm always like, "Oh, this hurts so bad." So I brought my little blanket, I put my blanket under my knees, felt much better.

And they were moving up and down from a seated position with your legs at 90-90, up into a tall kneeling position. And the first time she did it, I said, " cannot do that. I don't bend that way." And you know what?

The second time they went up into it, I did it, and I almost yelled out in class like, "Oh." Because I did it, and I was like, "Oh, my gosh, I can move like that, and I can balance with my feet in this position."

I was telling myself the whole time, "I can't do this, I can't do this." But then I also remembered something that I tell my clients and my athletes all the time, how can you say you can't do something, if you've never tried it?

Angel DeSantis:

Exactly.

Jenny Scott:

And I'd never tried it.

Angel DeSantis:

Yeah. And I think it's important to help people do new things. And I think, for me, as a trainer, if the person that I am with is willing to try new things, I'll be like, "I'll do it with you. Let's go be bad at it." And setting up the expectation that we're both going in, we're both beginners, let's be bad together, and it'll be really funny, or something like that. I invite people to fencing all the time, because I've never fenced.

And they're like, "Wait, why do you want to try out for the Olympics?" And I'm like, "No, I just want to wiggle a sword, and see if I can hit you." And I'm like, I’m pretty sure that’s how fencing works, and it's gotten me to do a lot of really fun things. People are like, "Oh, let's go for a 12-mile hike." And I'm like, "Why not? Let's do it. Let's see how far we get." And I'm not attached to 12 miles, but, by God, we're going to try.

Or somebody invited me to play tennis, and I was like, "You know what? I don't know how to play tennis, but I can promise you, I'm going to run for that ball."

So, it's taking, again, making these things accessible to people, and being willing to take the seat of a student, and take the seat of a beginner alongside them, which I think is very, very powerful.

So, if you have someone that you're working with, that you suspect or you know has trauma, it's being on the same level as them, as a human being, I think, is a very healing thing to do, because a lot of times, they believe, "Because this thing happened, or because I feel this way, therefore I'm less."

And that's kind of the state that people move through the world in, when they have a lot of trauma, and so I think having somebody that you consider above you, or an authority figure, your trainer, who knows so much, and knows about the body, and is so whatever, having them be like, "Hey, let's go do, let's go be beginners together." It makes you feel like, "Wait, they see me as an equal, that means I can also see me as an equal."

And then it starts to melt away the idea of any separation, and then eventually you realize, we're all very important, we're all human beings, we're all equally unimportant, and it's just about existing, and seeing what new stuff can come up when you're willing to exist in the world as a fellow human being.

Jenny Scott:

I love that mindset that you have, that we're all equally unimportant. That's a cool way to say it. So I think about that all the time. I live in a part of Arizona and Scottsdale, Arizona, there's a lot of money that floats around here. Every day, I walk around, and I'm like, "What do these people do? Why do they have so much money?" But just because you have more money in your bank account, more zeros after your name, doesn't make you any more important or less important than me, right?

Angel DeSantis:

Yeah.

Jenny Scott:

Same thing, if I went to a different part of town, I'm not any more important than somebody who doesn't, has less money than I do.

So people like to equate things, and money, and other things with status, and that they're more important, we're all just a little bags of flesh and cells.

Angel DeSantis:

I heard this thing this weekend, and I thought it was so funny, and this person said, "We're all just hairy bags of water with anxiety." And I was like, "Oh my God, we are." I was like, "Wait, that's so true.”

Jenny Scott:

That’s awesome.

Angel DeSantis:

We do something, we sweat, and we feel something, we cry. And I was like, "Oh my God, we are. We're just hairy bags of water with anxiety."

Jenny Scott:

I love that. I'm going to have to steal that one. That's a good one.

What are some of the benefits of a yoga practice that could help someone with trauma?

Jenny Scott:

So let's talk about yoga. Something that you love, and you're so passionate about. What are some of the benefits of a yoga practice that could help someone with trauma? There's so many, but what would you say are the top benefits of yoga practice?

Angel DeSantis:

So I think the top benefit, is the practice of Shavasana, which again, is the final posture, and it's where you lay flat, corpse pose, and you're supposed to lay in it for at least two minutes. It's like two to 15 minutes, and a lot of studios will do two minutes. Studios that have more time will do five, and you want the 10, you want the five to seven to 10-minute mark.

And I think that is the main reason yoga is so therapeutic, because it gives you a moment to then just sit, and be still, and I think the stuff that comes up when you are able to be still, is where a lot of healing can begin.

Because for me, I would have so much resistance. I would do all of Shavasana with my eyes open, just waiting, just like, "Let me out, let me out, I'm trapped, I don't like being here." I would try and think about stuff, because I never felt safe. So the idea of just closing my eyes and chilling, I was like, "No, you're trying to trick me. You're trying to trick me into, and then you're going to come by, and stomp on my face." I was always so afraid.

But then, after a while, I was like, "Huh, nobody has come by to hit me, or yell at me, or anything, yet, so maybe I can trust that this is actually two minutes where I can relax." And then it's the practice of feeling your nervous system being a calm state, and that was something that was brand, brand new.

So I think that is the most transformative thing. I also think being doing these poses, which are sometimes hard, and being in these stretches, which are sometimes hard, but having the component of, breath, and just being, taking a deep breath.

So even though your physical body is stressed, or your mind is stressed, because the pose is hard, and you're sweating, and you want to get out of the pose, coming back to the breath, the breath speaks to the nervous system directly. You cannot have a calm breath, if you are in this really heightened fight-or-flight state.

So putting you in these stressful situations while maintaining a calm breath, which is literally training, or retraining your nervous system to come back to base camp, which is a calm state of being.

So I think that is how yoga is incredibly transformative for anyone that has a traumatic background, it's literally a practice of safety, and learning how to bring yourself back, and feel safe.

Jenny Scott:

Absolutely. And you do, 100%, control it the whole time, right? It's easy to get, like you said, out of breath, if you're in an upside-down posture, your leg is up in the air and you're like, "Oh my gosh, I wonder what everybody else is looking at right now." And you're kind of, your brain just goes all over the place, and then they ask you just to come back to your breathing.

Angel DeSantis:

And it makes you conscious again. It brings you back to presence of like, "Wait, I'm fine. I just need to take two more breaths." So it's like, okay.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah.

Angel DeSantis:

And then you're like, "Okay, that was it. All right, I'm done. I can move. I can move now, but now I have to do it on the other side, but now I know I can just stay here, and just try and breathe."

Jenny Scott:

Yeah. And I know I can do it.

Angel DeSantis:

Great, because I did it on the other side.

Jenny Scott:

Yep, absolutely.

What role does community support play in exercise and trauma recovery?

Jenny Scott:

So Angel, what role does community support play in exercise, and trauma recovery?

Angel DeSantis:

So I think community is secondary, for me at least. I didn't find community until I had already had a yoga practice, I practiced at home for a year. I think everybody is different, but I think finding a supportive community of people who are moving, is incredibly important. So if the way that I am going into recovery is yoga, hopefully I find a really good yoga community, and I feel friendly, and we have something in common. If I am using CrossFit, if I am using boxing, if I am using SoulCycle, I am hoping that whoever is using these modalities to help with their trauma recovery, finds very loving, gracious, and kind people, who want to bring you in deeper into this community of movement, whatever it may be.

So I do think it's very important, but I think it's secondary. First, you have to feel safe as the person, and then, secondarily, hopefully you also find a very strong community that encourages you to stay along this journey of your own healing.

Jenny Scott:

I agree. That's very well stated. Yeah, I would agree with that, because, like you said, we have to make, that person has to make the decision to seek help, or to want work through what they're going through, and you can't just have out outside influences telling you, you need to do this. They have to want to.

Angel DeSantis:

Yeah.

How can somebody begin incorporating things like yoga, or finding a community, or even just finding a way to ask for help? How can they start incorporating that into their trauma recovery journey?

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, that makes sense. So how can somebody who's maybe new to exercise, begin incorporating things like yoga, or finding a community, or even just finding a way to ask for help? How can they start incorporating that into their trauma recovery journey?

Angel DeSantis:

So my suggestion is to start small. If you're consciously adding a exercise routine into your trauma recovery, do 10 minutes, and do 10 minutes once a week, and then if you're like, "I can do more," then do it twice a week, and build from there, because I think what trauma does a lot of times, is do a black and white, or an either-or mentality. So you get excited and then you're like, "I'm going to do this every day." And you do it for two days, and on the third day, you fall off, and then you're like, "I knew it. I'm a terrible person, I can't do anything, whatever."

So I think if you're incorporating exercise or movement into a trauma recovery, be very intentional about it, be very present the whole time that you're there, don't let your mind wander, but keep it short. Do 10 minutes. You don't need to start your recovery journey with an hour of something really advanced, that you're not yet capable of doing. The moment you stop feeling capable, stop.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah.

Angel DeSantis:

Take a break, grow your capacity, and when you're ready, come back. So I think, starting small, is very, really important, but be consistent, and however small you need to get the practice in order to make it consistent, do that.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, absolutely. That's like behavior change 101, right? We can't just go with it, and expect it to stick. Makes perfect sense.

What other resources do you have for listeners that want to learn more about this topic?

Jenny Scott:

What resources do you have, Angel? I know you mentioned we were talking off there before we started, some books and things. What other resources do you have for listeners that want to learn more about this topic?

Angel DeSantis:

So I have two books to recommend. One, again, is TheBody Keeps the Score, and the second book is called, Eastern Body, Western Mind. And it sort of talks about how the body works, and how the East looks at the body is like a vehicle, and how the West looks at it as something to be controlled.

So I think those two are really good resources to look at, especially when it comes to trauma. I also think that incorporating a personal practice of breath work, is very informative, because your body will react a lot when you do breath work, and I suggest incorporating that.

So those are amazing resources.

Jenny Scott:

Awesome. Well, we'll make sure to put those in the show notes, so everyone can find them, and check out those books.

Thank you so much for coming back on, and talking to us, Angel. You're not sick of us yet, you were in our yoga course, second podcast now, you keep coming back.

Angel DeSantis:

We'll be back.

Jenny Scott:

Absolutely. Well, it was a blessing having you with us. Thank you so much for sharing this with us.

And did you have any last words, or any other key takeaways, that you think that our listeners could use?

Angel DeSantis:

I would say, stay in a beginner mindset. Even if you've been a trainer for 25 years, and you've seen everything under the sun, there's still something new for you to learn, or there's something for you to relearn, so stay in that beginner mindset, and equalize yourself with the people that you are teaching.

Jenny Scott:

Absolutely. Great advice. I would agree with that. There's still more to be learned, and if we aren't inquisitive, then what are we?

Angel DeSantis:

Exactly.

Jenny Scott:

Right? We're stagnant, for sure.

How can listeners connect with you to learn more?

Jenny Scott:

Last question for you, Angel, is there any way that our listeners can reach you? How can they find you on social media, or online?

Angel DeSantis:

So I'm on Instagram as, @whatisangeldoing, in case you ever wonder what I'm doing? I also have a website, The Process By Angel, and I have an email list on there you can find, I have some courses for trauma recovery, and some fun stories, so you can find me in those places.

Jenny Scott:

Amazing, and guys, I will say, last time she was on our podcast, a while back, I signed up for the newsletter. It is amazing, super, great questions. It comes like once a week, I believe it is. It's awesome. So definitely signed up for the newsletter. Really good information.

But thank you again, Angel, so much for being here.

And always, guys, we remind you, go out into the world, be fruitful, do all the things, keep that beginner mindset, I love that, but always make good choices.

We'll be talking to you soon.