A Straight-Forward Approach to Coaching Health and Fitness Clients | Trainers Talking Truths

Listen to this Podcast Episode

On this episode of Trainers Talking Truths, Jenny and Dan talk to Jordan Syatt, elite powerlifter, Precision Nutrition & Westside Barbell Certified coach, and founder of Syatt Fitness.

Introduction:

Welcome to the Trainers Talking Truths. This is an ISSA podcast dedicated to exploring the fitness industry and uncovering the whys and hows of personal training. To do that, we'll talk directly to the industry experts and certified trainers. We'll dig into fitness programming, business tactics, nutrition, and more. You'll even hear from current training clients who offer insight from the other side. We've got the fitness industry covered, so turn up the volume and enjoy the drive.

Jenny Scott:

Jordan Syatt is all about eating what you want, having fun and living life to the fullest, and you can still get, be, and stay fit while you do it. A warning to our more sensitive listeners, Jordan does use some colorful language, but the conversation Dan and I have with him is a blast. Enjoy the show.

Jenny Scott:

Hello, world. Welcome back for another ISSA podcast, Trainers Talking Truths. It's your co-host Jenny Scott here with Dan the man Duran, of course, my favorite podcast co-host. How are you, Dan?

Dan Duran:

Hi, Jenny. Well, if I must be honest, I'm feeling a little frosty today. So what? Frosty.

Jenny Scott:

Like the one from Wendy's?

Dan Duran:

Well, some people think like a military term or whatever, but I'm literally feeling a little frosty. We got about five inches of snow last night. I woke up to it this morning and my office is about 70 yards from my house. So going back to eat lunch and grab something to drink, I've been shaking snow off my pants all morning long, so I'm feeling a little bit frosty.

Jenny Scott:

Oh my goodness. You need to invest in building a tunnel from your home to your office in the summer, just saying. Build yourself a little reinforced tunnel. You'll be good to go. Well, I will tell you it's not exactly warm here in Arizona. It's breezy, very breezy and mid-50s. So we'll have to ask our guests where he's right now.

Dan Duran:

I would say so.

Jenny Scott:

I'm super excited about today's episode. I was told that our guest, Jordan and I are going to be best friends because we have a, it's not even a no-frills approach, it's like a no-BS approach to coaching people. And we kind of almost have to have that thick skin and just give people things straight. Don't try and sugarcoat things. Don't try and make it seem like what it's not. We have to be super simple with people if they really want to see results. So I'm super excited for our guest. You ready to do this Dan?

Dan Duran:

I am. Absolutely. Let's get it.

Jenny Scott:

Great. All right, so let me tell you guys a little bit about our guests today. Jordan is an elite powerlifter. He's a Precision Nutrition and Westside Barbell certified coach and is well known for having been Gary Vaynerchuk's personal trainer. He began his online fitness coaching business, Syatt Fitness from his dorm room at the University of Delaware in 2011. So I don't know if that was his bachelor's or not. We'll have to ask him in a second here because that means he's just a baby, but he's packed a lot into this little life of his. He is definitely become one of the industry's leading experts on strength training, nutrition, and behavioral psychology. So welcome Jordan.

Jordan Syatt:

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Jenny Scott:

Yes, thank you for coming to our little podcast over here.

Jordan Syatt:

My pleasure. Now I just want a Wendy's Frosty really bad. Wendy's Frosty, all I'm thinking about right now.

Jenny Scott:

I know. They had that strawberry one for a while and I actually did try it. I'm not going to lie you guys. Full disclosure. I did try it and it was very good and then they took it away and brought like a mint one.

Dan Duran:

Put some candy corns on it, Jenny.

Jenny Scott:

No.

Dan Duran:

No?

Jordan Syatt:

I never had the other flavors. I always just got the original flavor and I dipped french fries in it. It's unbelievable.

Jenny Scott:

See, you get it.

Dan Duran:

I think we're going to be talking about food a little bit here today.

Jenny Scott:

We are. And the fact that you can eat whatever you want, just there's ways to do it, right? Love it.

How did you get started in fitness and work your way to where you are now?

Jenny Scott:

Well, Jordan, tell us a little bit about your journey. How did you get started in fitness and work your way to where you are now?

Jordan Syatt:

Yeah, so it started with wrestling. So I'm a short, bald, nerdy Jewish guy, come from a very short family. And so, my mom was worried that my older brother and I were going to get picked on because we're small Jewish kids. And so, when I was eight years old, she walked in the living room and she's like, I'm putting you two in wrestling. And the only wrestling that I knew at eight years old was WWE-style wrestling. So I remember I was lying on the couch and I looked up at her and I was like, you want me to hit someone with a chair? And she was like, no you idiot, like Olympic-style wrestling, which I had no idea what that was. And I was the black sheep of my family for many reasons, not least of which, because I was terrible in school. So, all of my family relatives, they’re doctors and lawyers and professors and superintendents and super high-level academics. And I was terrible.

I was in special education. I was a class clown. I just was not good in school. But I loved athletics, I loved sports, and I fell in love with wrestling. I just got obsessed with it. And so I started at eight. By the time I got to high school at 14, I made varsity as a freshman. So I beat a junior out for the varsity spot. And at 14, I was decent from a technique and endurance perspective because I'd already been doing it since I was eight. But I was on varsity, so I was mainly going against 17, 18-year-old kids. And the strength differential between 14-year-olds and 16, 17, 18-year-olds is huge.

So I grew up just outside Boston, Massachusetts. And so I wrote an email to a gym in a town called Newton, and I was like, listen, I'll take the trash out. I'll clean the floors, I'll work for free, I'll do whatever you want, just let me come and learn from you. And I was super blessed because number one, they took me in, they took me under their wing and also they were incredibly science-based. So I started coaching people at 14 years old and I just fell in love with it. And that's what I've been doing ever since.

Jenny Scott:

That's amazing. How'd you get into powerlifting then?

Jordan Syatt:

So I wrestled all through high school and then I was like, okay. I was tired of cutting weight. I developed some pretty severe binge-eating issues from wrestling and cutting weight. And so I was like, all right, I'll not going to wrestle in college, but I started going into powerlifting and I just got obsessed with it. And I got really obsessed with trying to get a four-times bodyweight deadlift. So just because one of the first times I ever maxed my deadlift, I was 125 pounds and I maxed at 300. One of the earlier times when I started, I was like, man, I could actually do something here. So I got really obsessed with it, and then I naturally started competing and my first competition, I got second place. And then every competition after that, I won by a landslide. And so I got obsessed with deadlifting four times of my body weight.

And so finally I did that at 24, 25 years old. I deadlifted 530 at 132, and then I retired from powerlifting, and then I was just... I was jacked up. You're not supposed to be able to lift that much weight, it's just not good for you. So I did that and that really actually helped my career a lot because I got into powerlifting right around the time that women started to get more into powerlifting. And I'm a small guy, so I started to make a name for my powerlifting when women started getting involved. So when I first started, it was all just dudes, huge dudes who were competing. By the time I retired, there were entire competitions that were just for women, which was amazing. And a lot of, again, I'm not huge, I'm a small dude, but I'm lifting more than most dudes who are double my size.

And so a lot of women at that time, they were like, I want to get strong, but I don't want to get big and this dude is strong and not big. So that's how I started to make a name for myself and build my business. And then once I retired, then I shifted just more towards just regular gen pop, overall everyday people, which is what I preferred. And then I coached Gary Vaynerchuk for three years. And I got fat and out of shape, and I was traveling all... Because I was coaching him seven days a week for three years straight. So, wherever Gary went, I went, there were no weekends, no vacations, no breaks, no nothing. If he was in Hong Kong, I was in Hong Kong. If he was in LA I was in LA. If he was in Ireland, I was in Ireland. All over the world for three years straight from June 1, 2016, to June 1, 2019.

And it's hard to keep up with your own health and fitness when that's what you're doing. So gained a lot of body fat, lost a lot of muscle, but I was working like a dog. I was working hard. And then once I stopped that, then I got into jiu-jitsu and I've been doing jiu-jitsu for the last three and a half years. I'm just obsessed with it. And that's pretty much it.

Jenny Scott:

Nice. So that seems like it was a good gateway for you in your career. That's amazing.

Jordan Syatt:

Yeah, it's been an incredible experience. It's the only job I've ever had and I absolutely love it.

Jenny Scott:

Awesome.

Dan Duran:

Well, it's quite a job to be able to speak to. And Jordan, you remind me of these two brothers I went to high school with. Okay, so they were not very big guys at all. Very small guys, thin. I was a football player, six foot over 200. And we had... They wrestled, but we didn't have wrestling in high school, but we had wrestling in PE. So, PE would roll around each year and it would be that three weeks or whatever that we wrestle. And I would just get sick to my stomach because I knew I was going to have to wrestle these little guys and they would tie me in a fricking knot. They would tie me in a knot just immediately. It was so humbling. I think humiliating might even be a better word. You just back off when somebody's got that wrestling background. They're going to tie you in a knot.

Jordan Syatt:

That's one of the things I love about it is whether it's wrestling, jiu-jitsu, or really any martial art is, I think a lot of people hear about practicing a martial art or practicing combatives or defenses, whatever it is, and they think that those people are looking for fights. And what I've realized is the people who are the most highly trained savage killers are the nicest, sweetest people who never want to get into a fight. Because in the gym, there's always someone better than you. There's always someone who can kill you, and you never know who they are on the street.

Dan Duran:

Never know.

Jordan Syatt:

You never know who they are, what they know, their skill level. So, it's like the people who fight the most and who are very high level, they never want to get in fights. And it's just like you'd rather be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war. So it's like I'd rather just know it and not need it than need it and not know it.

Jenny Scott:

That's so true.

Dan Duran:

I just drew a blank on that guy's name that was a Navy... I'm reading his book right now. Extreme Ownership, the Navy SEAL guy.

Jordan Syatt:

Jocko.

Dan Duran:

Jocko. I just saw quick clip of him talking about fighting and that's exactly what he said. And Jocko is not somebody you want to be on the wrong side of an argument with or a physical altercation. And he said, if someone blows up, if the fight's going to start, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to run.

Jordan Syatt:

Yeah, it's exactly...

Dan Duran:

I'm going to get out of there.

Jenny Scott:

Nope, I'm out.

What advice would you give new personal trainers trying to build their fitness business?

Dan Duran:

Let's circle back. We'll circle it back to personal training. And you started your business in a dorm like we talked about earlier, and now have an app, a podcast, a social media presence. Clearly Jenny has followed you and has determined that she's your new best friend, like she says.

Jenny Scott:

It's a thing.

Dan Duran:

That's right. Make some room. What advice would you give to new folks in our industry or new trainers to be able to build up that presence and build their business based on your experience?

Jordan Syatt:

Yeah, so I'll start. Jenny, get over to Dallas. Let's hang out. We'll go get some barbecue. You're welcome over anytime you want.

Jenny Scott:

Sweet.

Jordan Syatt:

So, here's what I think, I have a lot of thoughts on this. I have a lot of thoughts. There are so many amazing things that social media has done, one of which it's created an opportunity for more and more people to become a coach and to find their passion as a coach. Because so many people now are, they're leaving their nine to fives, they're leaving their cubicle jobs. And if that's what someone loves, amazing. But a lot of people have just been so unhappy in their professions and through social media they've found fitness, they've found coaching, and they're becoming more and more coaches. The issue is they have no idea how to be educated as a good coach. And I think there's too many people who, they... Maybe they'll hire an online coach and they'll be like, oh, well that was amazing. That was a great experience. Now I want to do that for other people.

The only education they have is the one coaching experience they had with that one coach. I remember I got on the phone with a young woman several years ago and she was saying, oh, I'm just feeling burned out as a coach. And she was like 21. And I was like, “How many books on programming have you read?” And she said, “Books?” And I was like, “Yeah, how many books on program design have you read and what are they?” And she was like, “I've never read a book.” She's like, “I didn't even know that they existed.”

And I think that this should go without saying, but unfortunately it has to be said, if you want to be an amazing coach and build a presence online and build a great business, you have to be a great coach.

Great coach is number one. You have to educate yourself. You have to... I'm so blessed the order of events that it happened when I started interning and all this, social media didn't exist. I didn't know you could have an online business. I was just coaching people in person for years and years and years and studying and learning and reading books and reading long articles and looking at the journal articles and going to school for it. And by the time I finished school, I had already been coaching for eight years already, and I started the powerlifting team at University of Delaware, and I was coaching two sessions a day there, the morning session, the afternoon session, went to Westside Barbell and Cressey Performance and it's just like I was doing it for a long time. I have a feeling that if I got into it... If I just shifted to a later time and I got into it when social media had already existed and I knew I could already build a business, I might post one video and then expect to have a huge business already on social media.

And that's just not how it works. A lot of people say that the industry is saturated. It's not saturated at all. It's saturated with bad coaches. I don't if I can swear on this podcast.

Jenny Scott:

That works.

Jordan Syatt:

It's saturated with really bad coaches. There's so much white space for amazing coaches. There are very few amazing coaches out there putting out content consistently. And so if you can, number one, educate yourself and be a great coach first, you're automatically going to stand out. That's the number one thing. How do you stand out? Know what you're talking about and be a really, really, really good open-minded, empathetic coach. And once you go from there, the rest is just the same thing we say to our client, just consistency. Post consistently, post helpful content.

I hate it when I see coaches doing shirtless pictures. Oh, look at my abs or look at my ass, or whatever it is. It's like they're showing a lateral raise and it's just all on their butt. I'm like, what the hell is this? That you're literally just looking for ego likes and people tell you how great you look. I have something that I call it an IPA, not the beer. I do love the beer, but I think every single post that you make should have at least one IPA, which I call an immediately practical action. When someone's done, whether it's a YouTube video, your podcast or Instagram post, whatever it is, they should be able to immediately identify what they can do right now to get better, to get healthier, to get stronger, to get leaner. They should have a clear, identifiable, practical plan to move forward. It doesn't have to be in a whole plan, but at least one action they can take in this moment to get better. And if you can't identify what that IPA is, then it's a shit post.

How do you keep people engaged on social media?

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, I love that. And you're absolutely right though, especially about the consistency part. And I've talked to students in our programs about that. If you want to be online, that's awesome. To your point, there's lots of room for people to do this, but again, deliver the appropriate content, deliver it well, but you do have to post consistently to keep people engaged.

So speaking of, this is a little off script for us, but I want to know more about this and share this with our listeners. How do you keep people engaged? Obviously you're just a straight shooter and I love that and I love your posts for that. They're very just straightforward. So does Layne Norton does the same thing. You guys like to debunk a lot of things, but you back it up with science, with evidence. Here's a link to go look at this study. So what are some other things that you use to keep people engaged with your posts?

Jordan Syatt:

That's an amazing question, and I'm going to backtrack just a little bit and then I'm going to answer your question as well. One of the common responses I get to the consistency comment is, coaches just being like, ugh, I just hate social media. And that really pisses me off. It infuriates me because these same coaches are telling their clients like, ugh, I just hate eating fruits and vegetables and drinking water. And they're like, well, if it's really important to you, then you'll do it. And in the meanwhile, the coach in the same breath is being like, oh, I just hate social media, da da da da. And they're complaining about other people, other coaches who are posting consistently and growing big audiences and actually making an impact. And they're just sitting there being all hateful, being like, oh, I'm such a better coach.

Well then show it. Get on there. If you tell your clients to drink water and eat fruits and vegetables, then post every day. If you can say your client should eat fruits and vegetables and drink water every day, then you should be able to... Your fruits and vegetables and water is posting content every day, period, end of story. If it's really important to you, then you're going to do it regardless of whether or not you hate it. I don't really enjoy eating vegetables either, but I do it because I have to. It's important for my health. I would rather have tequila than water, but here I am drinking water because it's important for my health. Sometimes you just got to... I would say probably eight out of 10 times I don't feel like posting on social media, but I do it anyway because I have to.

So moving on, how do I keep engagement? So there's a lot here. It's a great question. I think the best way to keep people engaged is to be a great teacher. And so here's how I look at things. I look at things like... I look at something like the CDC, for example, and I know some people are going to get mad at me for saying this. The CDC, it's a government organization. Their job is supposed to be educate and to teach people how to be healthy. In my opinion, they're failing miserably. They're doing a terrible, terrible job in focusing on the wrong things and not actually helping people get healthier. So it's actually our responsibility. And what an amazing time in history to have something like social media, which by the way, it's free to use. A lot of people complain about the algorithm.

It's like you're using someone else's platform for free. Relax, all right. You have an amazing opportunity. And so I think that's such a blessing to have this chance to help and to... The CDC, the NIH, whatever it is, we have the opportunity to really help people and change their lives on a mass scale, it's truly extraordinary. So I think the best thing is to become a great educator, and that's what we are, we're educators. So one of the best... My favorite quotes, and I didn't make this up, but just one of my favorite quotes as an educator is my job to tell you what to see. It's to show you where to look. And so I very much carry that through. It's like, I'm not saying you have to do this or you have to do that. I'm just going to present the information in a very clear, concise way.

Now, if you look back at my early content, 2011, 2012, 2013, you're going to see me using a lot of big words and fancy medical jargon and anterior pelvic tilt and talking about the Krebs cycle and thoracic extension. And that's all great. But what I was really trying to do was impress other coaches, if we really break it down. I was trying to show other coaches I was smart, partly because I wanted the ego likes of people telling me how smart I was. And also partly because I was scared of what other coaches might say about my content. And it wasn't until I realized other coaches aren't going to pay my bills and other coaches aren't going to sign up for my coaching that I was like, I'm doing this all wrong. So I eventually just started talking regularly. I'll give you an example. I hate when coaches use the word consume on their captions. If you need to consume this much protein.

Jenny Scott:

You mean eat.

Jordan Syatt:

When was the last time you ever said, I'm going to go consume some protein ever. No one talks like that. The only reason you're using that word in this written format is because you're trying to sound smart. If you just talk it to your audience, you talk to regular people, then it actually hits home much better. And people can relate to you much more. So, stop trying to sound smart. Stop trying to use big, fancy words. Stop trying to, like… You don't need to break down every single thing. If they want the science, sure, link them to it, but just make it easy to understand. If they were that interested in truly knowing the science, they would be going to school for this. And they're not. They're at work, they're at home with their kids, whatever it is.

They just want, what should I do? And briefly why. Cool. Say it like it is. That's it. You don't need a posture. You don't need to get ego likes or strokes. The more you can just very succinctly and clearly, this is what you need to do, here's why, that's fantastic. If you can incorporate humor, even better.

I'd say there's three types of content. So we have educational-based content and we also have entertainment-based content. So educational I'd say is what personal trainers do. Entertaining content, we could look at someone like Trey Kennedy for example. Super funny. It's like a funny comedian-type thing. It's just like you don't get any education out of it. It's just all funny and you feel good after watching it. The third type is a mix of the two. And I don't think this is for everyone. Not everyone is super, super funny. You don't have to be, but when you can bring humor into it, it sort of just lets people's guard down a little bit and allows them to get to know you a little bit better. So that's why I started doing things like wearing wigs or where is it? I have fake cigarettes that I'll smoke. Just little...

If you go through my Amazon orders, you're going to see all these weird things that I order all the time. It's tons of wigs and fake teeth and glasses and cigarettes, all this stuff because it adds a little bit of humor, which helps me stand out and gets them to watch more and more and more. So, if you can do any of that, if you could just be a good educator with a little bit of humor and stop trying to sound smart to other people so you can get ego likes, you're going to do really, really well.

Jenny Scott:

See, and I love that. And I love that you're adding the humor, but it's always... One thing I've noticed about your posts, Jordan, it's always you. It's either your words and explaining something in simple terms or it's your face. What are your thoughts? And it's not you're doing this wrong kind of question, but what are your thoughts on coaches that will take somebody else's material and post it and be like, oh, in the caption, this person's right. For example, I saw a coach who's a pro bodybuilder and I follow her. I think she's great. But she posted something a couple of weeks back and I actually commented that and I never comment on stuff on people's social media, but I commented. I was like, this is completely incorrect and I can't believe you're sharing this.

But it was some guy from Africa with a little accent talking. He opened a bottle of soda and it said... And he's like, do you hear that? That is such and such acid? It will burn your inside, blah, blah. I was like, that's carbon dioxide woman. What are you even posting right now? And I was like, yeah, it's not great for you, but what you are saying is completely incorrect. And I was like, I can't believe you posted. And then other people posted the same thing. And she left it up too. I went back a week later, she left it up. But I was like, this isn't even your content. If you believe that, how about you say it, you present it because she has a presence and she has followers and stuff. You present that if you believe it. What are your thoughts on that or what would you say people can do to avoid things like that?

Jordan Syatt:

So I'm not the biggest fan of using someone else's content for a lot of reasons. The most basic is it's just lazy, right? It's just lazy. And most people will post someone else's content as a way to make posting content easier. It's very hard to make content. It takes a long time to get remotely good at it. Usually a single Instagram post will take me on the low end, 45 minutes all the way up to three hours for one post. It takes a long time and a lot of thought. And if you could just take someone else's post and just write a cockamamie caption just like, oh yeah, this is right. It's like, great. You literally put in zero effort. That's like your client going to the gym and you wrote this whole program for them and you have all the percentages, the RPEs, all that.

And you wrote, let's say three sets of five deadlift. And they deadlift just body weight. They don't... Like a feather. They don't actually stress their body, they don't stress the system. You literally... Great, you did a hip hinge, but you didn't actually add load to it. You're not going to get any of the benefits from it. Same thing, you posted, you technically hit the post button, but you didn't do any of the work. And so that's probably the main reason.

And then we could go into other sub-reasons as well, but if you're always posting other people's stuff, then they're never knowing you. They're not knowing who you are, what you believe. And from a business perspective, it just doesn't make sense. I want to focus a lot on the effort involved and people love, love, love to hate on other people's social media content. I'm always like, how about you try making some content? Let's see how you do with it. And then those people quickly shut up because making content takes a lot of time and a lot of effort. And if you want to have a great business that helps people, then you're going to have to take that time and do it. And if you just post other people's stuff, it's not going to do much for you or for them.

Jenny Scott:

We're going to take a quick break for an ISSA review.

Advertisement:

You know what time it is, time for another ISSA Rapid Review. Kente Bates had this to say about our certified personal training course. Hey, nothing beats ISSA, period. Well, we appreciate you Kente, thanks for the review.

What are some of the biggest fitness myths you’ve heard?

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, I agree. And you do a lot of myth busting. And like I said, Layne Norton does and some other people do. You take something and you're like, well, here's what I heard, or here's what people are telling me or asking me about, and here's why this is not correct. But you do it in, again, lay people's terms, simplified. But we also love to do that here on our podcast. In your opinion, what are some of the fitness myths that you're seeing out there that you... I know you just spelled one. I think it was yesterday we posted, maybe it was today, so I'll bring it up. But what are some of the biggest fitness myths that you think should be absolutely just wiped off the face of this earth, annihilated, gone forever?

Jordan Syatt:

We're going to need a lot longer for this podcast.

Jenny Scott:

Well, I know that you think... Some people out there think carbohydrates cause obesity and you address that in your most recent post.

Jordan Syatt:

It's just so stupid. It's just no common sense. And the example that I use, I was like, well, if that's the case, then why are the Japanese among the healthiest population? Literally a city in Japan, I forget the name of the city, is the longest-living... They have the longest-living population in the world. And if you look at their diet, they eat white rice multiple times a day, every single day. And it's not just Japan. Italy is also a blue zone. They have a lot of carbohydrates, like a lot. It's not carbs. People are just eating too damn much. They're eating way too many calories on a regular basis. It's like, listen, should you be eating only carbs? No, of course not. Should you include other foods? Yes, absolutely. Are carbs the sole cause of obesity? Absolutely not. No. That's just not how it works. There are so many myths. I mean, looking at... I'll talk about one right now that I see more relevant to some of the fads that I'm watching are these ice baths. Now, if you like taking an ice bath, cool.

Jenny Scott:

Said no one ever, right?

Jordan Syatt:

Amazing. I would personally rather shit in my hands and clap than take an ice bath. But that's just me. Now also, some people say things like, oh, it makes me feel better and my dopamine and all this stuff. Yeah, sure. There's actually a legitimate science behind that. But people are saying, ice baths are better for fat loss and ice baths are better for metabolic rate and all this stuff. And I'm like, you know what is actually really great for your metabolism and also for your overall health and for fat loss? Is walking. That would be a great idea too. And you also don't have to get half naked and post it on your Instagram story when you get in the ice bath at 4:00 AM just to show people that you have abs and like, oh, I'm doing hard things. I'm getting the ice bath.

That's why most people post about it. If they could do it and not post on social media about it, but they're always doing it and posting about it on social media, I'm like, you're just doing this so people can see you shirtless and so that they can see that you're up early. This is just your way of showing that. You're not helping anybody. There's no IPA here, unless you're telling them, go get a bunch of ice bags to pour it in. Or some of these ice things cost $5,000 to $20,000. Just put it in your bathtub if you really want to do it. Like what the hell. It's unbelievable. And so, they're convincing themselves that they're actually making a positive impact by telling people to do this. In reality, it's just ego stroking. It's not helping. And again, if you like the ice baths, and to be fair, there are some benefits but not benefits that you couldn't just get through regular movement and getting a quality eight hours of sleep.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, I agree. And that's a big one for me too, because to your point, there's a lot of research and a lot of benefits to it. They've shown that. However, it's not for everybody. There's not a general population client, an average person. Let's say it that way, that I'm working with that I would say, yes, Steve, you need to do an ice bath. I recommend it to my college athletes who are like, hey, we just worked out really hard and I need to perform tomorrow. There's certain people that might benefit from it, but do we need to blast it out to everybody who now thinks that that's the only way? No.

Jordan Syatt:

And it's just like if I'm trying to talk to an everyday... This is how I know people don't actually coach real people. It's like you're giving these recommendations to... Yeah, good luck giving this to an average Joe or Jane, someone who's got kids, full-time job, they hate working out and fitness as is. They're just doing because they feel they have to for their health. You're really going to try and get them to get in the ice bath. Their life would be infinitely better if instead of getting into the ice bath, they went on a 15 to 20-minute walk every day, infinitely better. The health benefits would be 100x if they just did that every single day.

Not to mention the wellness wheel that we all learned about in middle school. It's like, when you go on a walk, you could do that with your kids. You can have a wonderful conversation. You can listen to a podcast and educate yourself. The ice bath, it's like you're generally by yourself with your phone, of course. So you can take a video to post it to social media. And it's like not... It is just mind-boggling to me that this is... It's like people going nuts over supplements. It's like really? Someone hasn't worked out for 17 years. They're like 48% body fat. And the first thing they're going to think is, what should I get at GNC? You should go on a walk and drink more water. You shouldn't be going to GNC until you've been consistent for three years. What are you doing?

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, agreed. Yeah, you couldn't even get me to take a cold shower. I shower on what we call lava in my house. So my husband knows, leave enough water in the tap because I need lava. I will not be taking a cool or cold shower, let alone getting in an ice bath. I do cryo infrequently and I'm pretty active, I bodybuild. I use it for certain reasons.

What are some of the biggest nutrition myths you’ve heard?

Jenny Scott:

But what about some nutrition myths specifically? So if we talked about the carbohydrates, what are... I know people boil things down to calories and calories out... There's a whole camp of people out there that are like, no, that's too simplified. Why would you talk about it like that? And then there's other people who are like, no, this is perfect. Where do you fall on that continuum?

Jordan Syatt:

Yeah, so I mean, the reality is calories matter and every calorie you eat counts, but calories aren't all that matter. And calories aren't all that count. There are other things that matter, like food quality, of course it matters and it counts. If we're talking... People often conflate health and fat loss. They're not the same thing. If we're looking at a Venn diagram, there's overlap between health and fat loss, but they're not the same thing. If you want to just lose fat, you could do it eating like garbage. You could do it without lifting a weight. I mean, hell, someone goes into a coma, they lose weight in the hospital, they're just lying in bed and they're being fed enough to sustain their life, but not so much that they're gaining weight. You can lose fat by eating in a calorie deficit and doing everything else wrong, but as long as you're in a calorie deficit, you lose fat.

It doesn't mean you're getting healthier, right? So, if you want to improve health and you also want to lose fat, cool. Pay attention to your calories. But then also make sure you're strength training, make sure you're eating high-quality foods on a regular basis. Because also, it's not just about fat loss and health. If we're also want to talk about, this is the one that goes really under-discussed is not just weight loss, it's weight loss maintenance. Anybody can lose weight, anybody can do it. People have done it over and over and over again. Keeping it off, that's the really hard part. And so why is that the hard part? It's because people do unsustainable things in order to lose weight, and then they're shocked when they can't sustain it and they gain all the weight back over and over and over again.

So from a calorie perspective, you want to lose weight, you need to eat a calorie deficit. If you want to maintain weight, what people don't talk about is you got to get your steps up. There's zero question, without a doubt that the most important aspect of weight loss maintenance is steps. Your movement on a day-to-day basis. Most important aspect of weight loss or fat loss specifically is calories and those obviously matter. Now, we could talk about this myth that all calories aren't created equal. I'm more than happy to talk about that. That's nonsense. Doesn't make any sense whatsoever. And very simply, whenever someone says all calories are not created equal, the first question out of my mouth is, would you mind defining a calorie?

Jenny Scott:

Exactly. Do you know the definition?

Jordan Syatt:

And usually they have no idea. But either way, we'll come out. All right, cool. It's just a unit of measurement. All it does is tell you how much energy is in a given food. It doesn't tell you what the food is. It doesn't tell you the micronutrient or macronutrient composition. All it tells you is how much energy is in that specific food and in that quantity of that food. In the same way, a mile is a unit of measurement. If someone says they ran a mile, you don't know if they're ran a mile on the sand. You don't know if they're in it in the woods. You don't know if they're in it going uphill or downhill. You don't know the composition of what that mile was. Now, running a mile in the sand is way harder than running a mile on the pavement.

So the composition of that mile absolutely matters, but the total distance is still a mile regardless of where you run it. Same thing with calories. A hundred calories from an apple is the exact same as a hundred calories from a donut. Now, a hundred calories from an apple, you could probably eat the whole apple unless it's a gargantuan fucking apple. But you could eat the whole apple and there's way more nutrition, it's going to be way higher quality overall. It's probably going to make you full and last for longer. And the donut, maybe you're only going to be able to have one or two bites of it before you get a hundred calories. So it's not going to fill you up as much. You're not going to feel as good probably. But it's still a hundred calories. So all calories are inherently created equal, but all macronutrients and micronutrients are not created equal.

Jenny Scott:

Hear hear. Good comparison.

Dan Duran:

Yeah, and he used some running and some mile speak.

Jenny Scott:

I know, he's speaking your language, Dan.

Dan Duran:

Yeah, I could relate. So Jordan...

Jenny Scott:

He's one of those weird runner guys.

What inspired you to write your book, Eat It?

Dan Duran:

I get my steps in, man. I get my steps in. Jordan on the nutrition topic. It's my understanding you wrote a book called Eat It.

Jordan Syatt:

Correct. Yeah.

Dan Duran:

Yeah, can we expand on that a little bit? Maybe tell us a little bit about what inspired you to write it and maybe a little bit more about your philosophy. I know you've touched on it to some extent, but really the philosophy within the book and what made you want to put it on paper?

Jordan Syatt:

Yeah, so I mean, if we're being brutally honest, obviously a huge aspect of writing a book is ego to say, oh, I have a published book. That's something that I think a lot of people would like to have. And so that was definitely playing a part in my brain. The other aspect is I give everything away for free. My Instagram, my YouTube, my podcast, my website. I've been doing this since July of 2011, and I put out content every day. Everything that I could teach you is available for free. But one of the issues is it's scattered all over the place. And I wanted to put it into a very simple, easy-to-follow way. Here's a plan. This is your plan. And it follows the exact methodology, the exact order of events that I teach my one-on-one clients in. So for example, I don't do one-on-one coaching right now, but when I was, I had an email drip sequence that went out to my one-on-one clients day after day after day.

And after years and years of coaching, I realized the first video course should have nothing to do with calories or macros. It should have nothing to do with exercise. The first video course, it was titled You Can't Fuck This Up. What I realized is that most people, the reason that they fail is because they quit. That's it. And I think really the job of a personal trainer more than anything is, yes, learn how to program design. Yes, learn anatomy and physiology and kinesiology. Yes, learn nutrition, learn all this stuff. But if your clients are quitting, they're never going to make progress. So you have to... I think of my job as almost like the bowling gutter guards. Again, I'm not going to tell you what to see. I'm going to show you where to look. I'm going to make sure you get to the end of this bowling alley without falling in the gutter.

There's going to be bumps and bruises along the way. You're going to fall, you're going to make mistakes. That's okay, but as long as you don't quit, we're good. And so that's what the first chapter of the book is about. That's what a huge portion of the book is. How do I get you to not quit? So there's a lot of education around that. The behavioral psychology component of that. There's a strength training program in there, there's nutrition guidelines in there, all of that. But the most important thing is giving you the tools you need to know what's normal, what's not normal.

A lot of people, they get really discouraged when they look at the scale, and I realize it's not that there's something wrong with the scale. The scale's an inanimate object. The issue is that you don't know how to speak the scale language. You don't know why it's telling you the weight is fluctuating up or down. You don't know what's going on. You don't know what to look for, how often to look for it. So teaching people how to speak scale, what is the scale actually telling you, how to read that data over time, logically, not emotionally. So a lot of the book is really just me trying to give you all the tools that you need to not quit and find what is most sustainable for you.

Jenny Scott:

I love that. And great comparison again with the bumper guards or whatever, and you talk about guilt-free enjoyment of your favorite foods. We started off the show talking about Wendy's Frosty. I'm not going to lie. Every now and again, I like a Frosty, and if I want a Frosty, I'm going to have a Frosty. What do you teach clients about that?

Jordan Syatt:

So the book is called Eat It because I want people to be able to eat their favorite foods in moderation without any guilt or shame at all. One of my most popular YouTube videos is I ate a Big Mac every single day for 30 days straight.

Jenny Scott:

Yes, I did see that.

Jordan Syatt:

Lost seven pounds in the process. And it's the same reason, I wanted to show people that you can eat your favorite foods in moderation and still make progress, and there should be zero guilt attached. Going back to what I was saying before, why do most people quit? Well, arguably the main reason they quit is because they feel like they screwed up. They feel like they failed, which is why the first video course is You Can't Fuck This Up. I want to take away the excuse, the justification to quit. As soon as someone...

Oh my God, they go out to eat Mexican food on a Friday night. They have chips and guac and several margaritas, which is one of my favorite things to do. I live in Dallas, Texas. I do it all the time. They feel bad about it. They ate more than they should have. Cool. That's fine. Then they go home. They have a whole box of cinnamon toast crunch, donuts, all this stuff. It's end of the Friday night. They're like super bloated. Oh my God, I feel so bad. Saturday comes, they're like, well, I already screwed up all my progress, so I'm going to go to the diner, have the pancakes and the ice cream, and I'll get back on track on Monday.

It's like the weekends are about 40% of your week. If you had just enjoyed Friday without guilt and then got back on track on Saturday, there would be zero damage, zero issue whatsoever. The fact that you then use that as a justification to quit and then completely fall off track and then just go overboard with everything, that's the reason you're struggling. So I want to teach people, yeah, if you want to have McDonald's, have McDonald's, that's fine. It shouldn't be every meal. It shouldn't be most meals, but some of the time it's totally fine. Just get right back on track.

Dan Duran:

He's talking to me, Jenny. I know he's talking to me. I was just in Dallas last week and I struggle when I'm on the road. That's when you know there's candy and dessert, and so sure enough, I came back on Saturday and I told my wife, it's like, well, I already spent five days blowing at, I might as blow it on Sunday. Starting Monday, baby.

Jordan Syatt:

What were you doing in Dallas? Were you at the Raise the Bar event?

Dan Duran:

No. I was teaching a workshop.

Jordan Syatt:

Got it. Okay. Well, next time you're here, either of you let me know.

Dan Duran:

Right on.

What is your favorite thing about what you do?

Jenny Scott:

Will do. No, yeah, that's a really great philosophy to have, and I love that you're teaching it this way, and I'm sure you've had a lot of people be very, very successful. But Jordan, what's your favorite thing about what you do?

Jordan Syatt:

That's great.

Jenny Scott:

You wear a lot of different hats.

Jordan Syatt:

Favorite thing about what I do? So there's a lot. I'll say selfishly, I guess it's inherently a selfish answer because it's my favorite thing, but I'll give you this example. So again, I was really bad in school, terrible in school, special education, and a lot of teachers just really didn't give me the time of day. They didn't give me the time of day. They just didn't really care about it. I don't remember those teachers’ names. There are two teachers that I remember vividly. Nathaniel Armistead, my 10th-grade history teacher, and Steven Lambert, my 7th-grade math teacher. These two guys went above and beyond to make sure that I felt accepted, to make sure that I... They came into school early. They stayed late. I'll never forget one time I was really struggling on a math test, and I had kept going in early with Mr. Lambert. Early before school to get some math help. And during the test, he could tell that I was struggling. He just wrote reminders for me on a note card. In the middle of the test, walked up to me and just put it on my desk.

Just like that was so nice because it wasn't about... He didn't care if I remembered it. He was like, he just saw how hard I was working, and he wanted to reward that. Nathaniel Armistead caught me straight up cheating on my final exam, just straight up, because I would take it in my special education class. I would cheat all the time. So I brought in a massive... I was supposed to be allowed a four by six note card because in special education, but I brought in a huge note card. I literally took the entire syllabus and I got it down on a computer and I got it into tiny writing.

I put the entire thing on the note card, so I just had to look at it, and every answer of the test was there. He walked in, saw it, he picked it up, turned, looked it over, cool. Just left, didn't say a word. I graduated, no problem. And I went back after I graduated, I was like, why didn't you say... Because he could have kept me back. And he was like, the amount of time and effort and work it took you to make that whole thing that was studying, that was hard work. He's like, I'm not going to punish you for that. And so what I'm saying is I remember these teachers, I remember their names. I am still in contact with them to this day.

I want to be that coach. There are so many coaches out there who don't care really about their clients, and they'll say stupid things like my job isn't to motivate you. I'm supposed to give you the program and you're supposed to do it. And I'm like, if you don't think your job, part of it is motivation, then why are you in this industry to begin with it? And so that's how I want to be the coach, that when someone's 60, 70, 80, 90 years old, they're telling their grandkids, thank God for Jordan. Because if it wasn't for him, I probably wouldn't be here right now. That's what I love the most is the idea that there are people out there who will forever be able to talk to me and remember me and tell their kids and grandkids and stuff about me, even people that I've never met in person. So that's probably my favorite part.

Jenny Scott:

Oh, see, I told you, we're going to be best friends. I live... That's the way I do too with my sports training, which I've done now for nine years out of the 14 that I've trained. And when I do our boot camps and stuff, when I'm working with people, I want to be that person that they're like, I remember you because I'm kind of funny, kind of goofy like you were talking about earlier. I just say things, I call them Jennyisms, and then people go on Facebook and they're like, this was the Jennyism. And I'm like, yes. They remember. You want to be that person that years from now or when they're telling a friend about it, they're like, coach Jordan. Well, he's the best. And they have good things to say, good memories. And that's an amazing... Another good comparison. I can't.

Jordan Syatt:

Actually, I want to talk about that. All the stories that I tell in the comparison of the analogies, it's not an accident. This is by design. This is something I think, I'll never forget this. When I was probably in 10th grade or something, my mom sent me to this conference for Jewish kids across North America. I went to Cincinnati and there was this really old rabbi who's coming up to talk to the whole crowd. There's thousands of people in there, and he's like doing this slow old rabbi walk up to the podium and he starts talking and he tells this whole story all about how stories are the best way to teach. And if you can tell a really good story, then you will never have a problem captivating an audience and educating them and getting your point across. And it's something that I practice every single day is storytelling and analogies, because I think they're the best way to really solidify something.

And you just said something, your Jennyisms, this is something that I call, it's sticky. And people will go on their social media. This was the Jennyism from today. It's small things like that actually make a huge difference in terms of overall comprehension and stickiness that it's always in their head. They'll just always remember it. I guarantee these people when they're 85 years old, they'll be like, this is the Jennyism. Even if they haven't used it in years, they'll always remember that. And so it's important to practice storytelling. It's important to practice using analogies. One of the best books I've ever read is called Made to Stick by Chip and Dan Heath. If you want to be a really good content creator and learn how to make sticky things in how to help people understand and remember the stuff you're saying, read that book. That is one of the best books I've ever read in my life.

Jenny Scott:

That's awesome. Good recommendation. We'll throw that in the show notes for everybody. Thank you.

Jordan Syatt:

Yeah, of course.

How can listeners connect with you to learn more?

Jenny Scott:

That's amazing. Oh my gosh. Where can our listeners find you, by the way? Where can they find you on social media and such?

Jordan Syatt:

If you Google my name Jordan Syatt, I'm on every platform. I just hate TikTok. I'm on TikTok. I haven't used it in probably a year. So don't... I just hate TikTok.

Jenny Scott:

What do you not like about it compared to the other platforms?

Jordan Syatt:

A lot. Number one is I really, really don't like what they favor on the algorithm. I just get some... Essentially porn on it. I'm just like, what the hell? Why is this coming up on my feed? I haven't liked anything like this. I haven't shown any interest in this, and it just seems like it's rotting my brain every time I open it. And I also don't like, this is a big one. I don't know if they've changed it, but the comments are limited to characters, a certain number of characters. At least it was when I was on it. I don't know if it still is. And I love the comment section. As a creator and as an educator, I use my comment section to educate people further. And if I can't go into... A lot of times... Nothing pisses me off more than when I see coaches complaining about engagement and then they get someone commenting saying like, hey, this was a great post. And they don't reply.

I'm like, you're an asshole. Yeah, of course you're not going to get... Imagine inviting someone over to your house for dinner and you cook dinner. You prepare a great dinner, and then they say, hey, I just want to say thank you. This was delicious. And you don't reply. That's what you're doing when people are going to your page, watching your content, they're saying, hey, this was great, and you don't reply. So number one, you should be replying people. Number two is, I love it when people either disagree or have questions in the comment section, not because I want to change their mind, I have no interest in changing their mind, but I know other people are watching those comments and so I use that as an opportunity to educate them so that other people reading can... Maybe someone's on the fence, so they don't fully understand it or I couldn't go into the nuance in the video or the post. There's an amazing opportunity right there. Whereas TikTok, when they limit the caption length, it makes it very difficult to really continue that educational process.

Jenny Scott:

Fair enough. All good points and I'm glad you elaborated on replying to the messages that you get, even if it's just a little heart, right? Something, say thanks at somebody.

Jordan Syatt:

Here's what I'll say about that. If you have a fair amount of time and you're trying to build your audience, you better actually give a real legit response. Thank you so much. I appreciate you. Maybe even shoot them a DM. I do this all the time. Voice memos. Hey, thank you so much. I appreciate you. I do it all the time. It's a huge percentage of my day is replying. If you've got 500 followers and all you're doing is liking the comment, come on. Unless you don't care about growing your audience or really helping or engaging with these people, if you really do give it... God, take... It's sort of when people write HBD. It's my birthday, and go HBD and like you piece of shit, you couldn't just write happy birthday.

Jenny Scott:

What does that even mean?

Jordan Syatt:

Like come on man. What is this? It shows that you really care and in a world of social media where so many people are... They just look at follower accounts and they just say, hey, you're just a number to actually go out of your way to really reply. People truly feel that you care about them and I think that really matters.

Jenny Scott:

Love it. Great advice. This was fun.

Dan Duran:

Indeed. Did we talk about how to find you? I think you started with tell us not...

Jordan Syatt:

Google.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, he said Google.

Jordan Syatt:

I'm everywhere, but just...

Jenny Scott:

Google his name. He'll pop up. I love his Instagram and your website is amazing. Apparently, you are 27th degree black belt in chugging coffee. I love that.

Jordan Syatt:

I am. It took a long time to achieve that and I'm testing for my 28th degree black belt.

Dan Duran:

Oh master Jordan, I want to learn from you so that I can achieve that love of coffee chugging. Sensei.

Jenny Scott:

I love it. I love that you're doing works and you have... Check out his website, you guys, syattfitness.com. He has some great testimonials and I know some people post testimonials that are not real. I watched every single one that you have on your website and they're phenomenal. Like legit people telling them their experience working with you and the way that you've broken things down for them and just made a huge impact in people's lives. So I love that about you and there's a lot to learn from what you are doing out there. So great work. Keep it up.

Jordan Syatt:

Thank you. I appreciate you both and have a great podcast. You're great hosts and I mean it, when you're in Dallas, let me know you're both welcome over for dinner anytime.

Jenny Scott:

Thank you. I'll take you up on that. That's awesome.

Dan Duran:

Yeah, I'll be there next month. I’ll stay in touch.

Jordan Syatt:

Let's go. Hit me up.

Jenny Scott:

Any last words for our crew today, Dan?

Dan Duran:

Three takeaways, Jenny. Three takeaways. Number one, a calorie is a calorie, in fact. Number two, you can lose weight on a Big Mac a day. And number three, don't wait till Monday to start. There it is. Great stuff.

Jenny Scott:

I love it. Well, thank you again, Jordan. This has been a phenomenal conversation. Hopefully you guys got a lot out of this because I know a lot of you guys out there want to grow your following, create content. He just gave you a lot of the keys to the kingdom. Not all of them, but he shared quite a bit with you guys. Check out... He said everything he offers is free, so go do some digging on your own guys. Do your own learning and learn from this guy. This has been awesome. Thank you so much Jordan, and thank you guys for listening. As always, go out there into the world, be fruitful, do all the things and make good choices. We'll be talking to you soon.