Bridging the Gap Between Science and Practical Insights | Trainers Talking Truth

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In this podcast episode, we hear from ISSA’s own team members and bootcamp co-hosts Jenny Scott and John Bauer for our first edition of Lighting Fitness Facts and Trainer REAL talk.

Podcast Introduction:

Welcome to Trainers Talking Truths. This is an ISSA podcast dedicated to exploring the fitness industry and uncovering the whys and hows of personal training. To do that, we'll talk directly to the industry experts and certified trainers. We'll dig into fitness programming, business tactics, nutrition and more. You'll even hear from current training clients who offer insight from the other side. We've got the fitness industry covered, so turn up the volume and enjoy the drive.

Jenny Scott:

Hello world. Welcome back for another ISSA podcast, Trainers Talking Truths. It's your co-host here, Jenny Scott here with a... Guys, we got a guest podcast co-host. I have my lovely bootcamp co-host John Bauer with me. How are you, John?

John Bauer:

I'm good. Thank you for calling me lovely, by the way. I appreciate it. Oh yeah, it's good to be back. It's been a little while since I've been on the podcast and I'm excited about the many different topics that we're going to try to tackle today.

Jenny Scott:

Yes. Okay, so we have a different format today. Today is just me and John, but we're going to do this like a little game show and I love it. So before we get started, John, remind everybody how long you've been in the fitness industry.

John Bauer:

Yeah, like I tell the bootcampers, I've been in the industry since the 1900s and that just makes it sound longer than it is. It's been over 20 years. So a lot of years spent training. I have 15 to 20,000 personal training sessions under my belt. Five years as a university instructor. Several different education jobs, teaching continuing education, including the education job that we do here at ISSA. And I've also been on the operator side and been a manager of several health clubs. So I've been around, I've there and done that.

Jenny Scott:

Yes, you have been around a very long time. I personally have been in the industry for 14 years as a certified fitness professional and counting, because I'm still actively training clients and I do a lot of sports performance for youth and college. That is my jam. And I have a sports performance business here in Arizona, a company that I run and I'm the primary trainer for.

So super excited to go through a lot of this stuff with you guys. We always talk about continuing your education and there's so much out there to learn. And John, I'm not just talking about like con-ed for renewing your certifications, I'm talking about continuing your education because you find something you're passionate about or something that you think is really cool or something that you hear research on. You're like, "What is that? I want to know more." Are there some things out there that you've done continuing education or more research on before?

John Bauer:

Yeah. When I first started as a trainer, I didn't really have a definition for what sort of trainer I was. I was just a trainer, but I was a former college athlete so I thought that's the route I was going to go. Inevitably my career, I started working with people that had different chronic conditions, poor movement. And so I started to gear my education toward that because that's not where I was really strongest in education-wise. So I started to learn a lot more about corrective exercise, a lot about those health conditions and how to appropriately train people with those conditions. So I went that route with a lot of my education because I needed it. Because at the end of the day, I wanted my career to be successful. And in some cases you just got to make sure that you get better at different parts of the job so that you can be successful.

Jenny Scott:

Absolutely. Yeah, there's so much to know. And I think when you do find something that you're passionate about or you keep coming across, your clients keep coming to you with this, learn more about it, do so much more. I am personally, I'm a self-proclaimed what I would call nerd. I just love to learn. And so outside of doing courses, I actually subscribe to and I'm a member of a lot of different organizations including NSCA. I have different memberships to different journals like the Journal of Exercise Science, Sports Journal, Strength & Conditioning Research Journal, so many different journals. And I actually get the physical copies, John, I love it.

So today, guys, I want to make sure that we're giving you guys some really great research and good stuff that's come out in 2023, some new stuff. So just know the show notes today are going to be packed. Tons of references for you guys. All of the stuff that we're going to talk about today is 100% referenced in our show notes. So check it out if you want to learn more or check out the actual articles that we're referring to. And I also love NPR. I know. It's weird. I love talk radio.

Okay, so NPR is my jam, you guys. And on the weekends they do this game show type show. It's a variety show on the radio called Wait Wait, Don't tell Me! So today we are going to model our show a little bit after them. Thank you, NPR. So we're going to do a little bit of a game show, but we're going to hopefully give you guys some really cool information that you can run with. So John, I want to start us off with something I am calling Lightning Fitness Facts. Are you ready?

John Bauer:

I'm ready. Let's go.

Jenny Scott:

All right guys. Okay, so the way this works, I'm going to give John a question and I'm going to ask him to fill in some kind of blank in here. There's some information missing and I'm going to have him guess what that information is and then I'm going to talk about it.

Question 1: What did researchers discover that might increase the chance of obesity in some people?

Jenny Scott:

Okay, so our first question here, John. Recently, a team at the Garvan Institute of Medical Research identified a group of brain cells that drive what in obese patients?

John Bauer:

I'm going to guess something along the lines of hunger or satiety, something like that.

Jenny Scott:

Ding, ding, ding. Yes, John, it was appetite. Absolutely. So this is super interesting. So let me tell you about it. The researchers discovered that these cells not only produce an appetite-stimulating molecule called NPY, but they in fact also made the brain more sensitive to this molecule, which boosts appetite even more. So this understandably can explain why some people that are obese might struggle with their nutrition, specifically creating a calorie deficit and ultimately losing weight. And they refer to it as the vicious cycle.

I really like this study and I want to bring this one up, John, because it's important that we understand that we can't just see someone who's overweight, who wants to lose weight and say, "Oh, just stop eating. Eat less. Eat less, move more." I see people do that all the time. "Eat less," with their hand, "Eat less, move more." It's not that simple. This is telling us that there's actually something physiologically going on that increases their appetite. And when you have a higher appetite, what do you? You go satisfy it, to make that noise stop. So super interesting. What are your thoughts on this one?

John Bauer:

Yeah. One cool thing about fitness and nutrition is you can reduce a lot of that stuff to math equations, but at the end of the day, that's not how people work. People are not math equations. People have different feelings. I guess we can call appetite a feeling because it drives your behavior. And if you have this feeling that's driving a behavior, that's the part that has to be overcome in order to see success in weight loss. So although we can turn calories in and calories out into a math equation, it's really just not that simple. There's other parts of the equation that we as trainers have to take into account when working with our clients. And I've been in offices with people who are just frustrated, they feel like they're following the program, they're doing everything, but there are other things that are getting in the way and it's very frustrating to them. We as the trainer, we can either point our fingers at them and treat them like they're a math equation and that they're not following the rules or understand that there are other things that drive their behaviors.

Jenny Scott:

Absolutely. Curious, John, if you do come across a client who's struggling with weight loss, they report that they're doing all their things that they need to do nutritionally as far as their calorie deficit. They're doing their exercise to increase that calorie deficit, because that's ultimately what exercise does for a weight loss goal. Yes, it's good for your whole body, but we know that it can help you increase your calorie deficit. What would be your next step? Do you refer them to somebody? Do you have a conversation? What does that look like?

John Bauer:

It could be referring to someone, but it depends on what the issue is. But one thing that I became a lot more clear on later in training people is there's a general lack of awareness of what drives their behaviors. And sometimes when we do things like food journals, we're just doing the math part of it, we're not actually writing down the part where it's like, "I felt like this before I ate that," or "I felt like this after I ate that." Because when you acknowledge those things, then you start to create awareness for maybe what's driving those behaviors in the first place. And if you can gain some of that awareness now you can make a plan. If you're completely unaware of what's driving your behaviors, then how do you make a plan? You're just randomly guessing.

Jenny Scott:

I love that. I'm going to dub this the food and feelings log.

John Bauer:

It is really useful when you really take a look at, what is making me do what I do. And oftentimes when I have clients do this, they've never done something like that before.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, I agree, John. I think even in general, I think the behaviors that we do, most people don't think about Why did I do that? So think about when you're driving in the car and you get upset. Like my husband, he's terrible. Oh my gosh, he gets so mad at people. I'm like, "So what is causing you to do that? Have you ever thought about it? Because it's just not a knee-jerk reaction. Are you having a bad day? Is there something else irritating you? Do you not feel good? Are you hungry? What is it that's causing you to do this behavior?" Generally speaking, you're absolutely right. There's something else there. It's not just, "Oh, I just do that." Maybe not. Maybe you do. Well, maybe not, but most people don't think about that, so I love that. All right. Food and feelings diaries, food and feelings. I love that.

Question 2: How many minutes a day of moderate intensity physical activity would be sufficient to lower the risk of issues such as heart disease, stroke, and many types of cancer?

Jenny Scott:

All right, John. Next one. In a study published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine, the researchers say that how many minutes a day of moderate intensity physical activity, like a brisk walk would be sufficient to lower the risk of diseases such as heart disease, stroke, and many types of cancer. How many minutes, John?

John Bauer:

So how many minutes a day of something like a walk? I'm going to say... Let's go with 20 minutes.

Jenny Scott:

20. Good guess. It's actually less, John. These researchers found 11 minutes a day of moderate intensity physical activity like a brisk walk is more than enough to lower the disease risk for most people. 11 minutes, you guys, 11 minutes a day. That's it. So this study was done in partnership with the University of Cambridge, and it goes to show that a little goes a really long way. This also is in alignment with the general recommendations for cardiovascular exercise of 75 minutes per week of vigorous cardiovascular activity or 150 minutes a week of a combination of moderate and vigorous cardiovascular activity. So I think there's a big point here. We don't have to have people doing 30, 40, 60 minutes a day or doing these huge super strenuous workouts in order to see the benefits. If you have a weight loss goal or you're trying to burn more calories, that's another story. The duration or the intensity might change. But generally speaking, for the overall health benefits, John, it's actually not that much. What do you think?

John Bauer:

That's really exciting news to hear. And you're right, it doesn't have to be 30, 40, 50 minutes, depending on the goal. The goal is going to dictate that. But one of our goals that we probably don't emphasize enough is keeping your body and your physiology working at its best and being optimal and keeping your body useful for as long as possible. It doesn't take that much in order to keep away the chronic diseases, give you less risk of those diseases. And again, there's a lot of benefit. I'm a walker, I'm a chronic walker these days, and that's become one of my favorite things because I feel like I can knock out a lot of things at once. I'm getting the walk, I'm getting some sunshine, I'm getting some fresh air, the movement, I'm usually listening to something that's usually educational. So I'm getting that as well. A lot that can be done in those 11 minutes. I actually go for walks that are longer than 11 minutes. But I think it's a great thing to be able to emphasize the health part of health and fitness as opposed to just the fitness part.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, absolutely. Because we know that depending on your goal, like you said, cardiovascular training can benefit you. Do you have to do it depending on your goal? No, not necessarily. But we know that everyone should be doing it to some degree because of its general health benefits. So I love this. A little goes a long way. This is a cool one.

All right. You ready for the next one, John?

John Bauer:

Let's go.

Question 3: Recent evidence suggests that there may be a gut bacteria that can help promote what?

Jenny Scott:

All right, okay. Recent evidence suggests that there may be a gut bacteria that can help promote what?

John Bauer:

A gut bacteria that can promote... I'm going to go back to the question we had earlier, like satiety, make you feel full, that sort of thing.

Jenny Scott:

Oh, close actually. So they found that there's potentially a gut bacteria that can help promote the desire to exercise. It can make you want to exercise more. Okay, so hear me out. Some species of gut-dwelling bacteria activate nerves in the gut to promote the desire to exercise according to one study in mice. I really want to point that out guys. This is in mice. Mice are not necessarily physiological ident... They're not physiologically identical to humans, period. They're mice. But it was led by researchers at the Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania. This study was published in the Journal of Nature and it reveals the gut-to-brain pathway, and it helps explain how some bacteria can boost exercise performance.

So one thing that the senior author on this, PhD, Christopher Thaiss said, "If we can confirm the presence of a similar pathway in humans, it could offer an effective way to boost people's levels of exercise to improve public health in general." So I thought this one was super interesting. The biggest thing is it is in mice. And John, can you speak to this? A lot of research out there is done in mice. So it's important to understand who the subjects were, right?

John Bauer:

Yeah. And part of the reason research is done that way so that... A lot of the researchers know that mice are different than humans, but this is where they want to start to formulate some of their ideas. And this is where some fantastic discoveries have come about from this sort of research. So oftentimes that's where a lot of this research is started and it does give us at least a piece of the information that can be really useful for us. And something like this is really compelling because one thing that it makes me think is if there's bacteria that activates nerves that promote the desire to exercise, then there's probably some that do the opposite. And that's something I would want to know too, is what can I stay away from that's going to make me feel lazy? I can already think of some foods that make me want to go to sleep right away, but are there some things, are there some supplements? Something like that that can affect me in a way where my desire to get out there and be active is even greater. I think that's really, really interesting.

Jenny Scott:

I do too. Yeah, I think the whole... Of course we knew there was bacteria in our gut, we all know that. But now they're starting to really decipher what's in there. There's lots of different types of bacteria in your gut and it varies by person, which ones dominate, which one... Who has more of which one? But they actually can impact your nervous system, which ultimately is your brain. And that can impact what you do and impacts your brain chemistry and the way that it's firing and what the behaviors come after. So I think that's super, super interesting and I really love, John, that people are starting to look more into it, to the point where we understand that we can impact that connection of your gut to your brain. We can promote different bacteria, we can get rid of bacteria that might be detrimental, but we can ultimately impact our nervous system by doing so. Super interesting. I thought this one was cool. Again, it was published in the study in the Journal of Nature. So check the show notes for their reference for that one so you guys can check it out.

John Bauer:

I'll just add one piece to that. You just mentioned nervous system. And I do want to point out for our listeners, that there is something called the enteric nervous system. And this is the nervous system associated with the gut. So there is some hard science there that can tell us that there are things that are happening in our gut that can affect us. And then the other way around, there's things that we can do that can affect our gut because there is kind of a separate nervous system that affects that area. Again, really interesting information and I'm hoping I can find out how to make this happen for myself.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, right. So you want to exercise more? Oh my goodness.

Question 4: Who is one of the leading US researchers in resistance and hypertrophy?

Jenny Scott:

All right, John, the next one, you should be able to nail this one. This one's a relatively... It's not easy. It's a simple question. Who is one of the leading... Give me the name of the leading resistance and hypertrophy researchers in the US.

John Bauer:

I got to go with my guy Brad Schoenfeld, because I have one of his books sitting right here. So much research has his name on it. I actually spoke at a conference once where his sister spoke and she was one of those people that she bent a metal bar.

Jenny Scott:

Oh my gosh.

John Bauer:

Yeah, her name's Melody Schoenfeld but there has to be something there. I have a feeling he taught her a thing or two about how to get bigger and stronger.

Jenny Scott:

Yes. And you are correct. And we're going to talk a little bit about one of his studies coming up here. But yes, he is a professor of exercise science in the department of health sciences at City University in New York City Lehman College. He has more than 350 published papers and is considered one of the foremost experts on muscle hypertrophy. This guy is awesome. I follow him on Instagram, John, and he's constantly posting articles or journal articles and research that either he's named on or maybe not, that he finds interesting. And I love it because he usually leaves it open for discussion. So he'll post the title page and the abstract of an article and highlight the important takeaways towards the end of the abstract is where that's usually the conclusion is, he'll highlight that and then usually he'll summarize it in his caption and then he leaves it open for discussion.

And I love his discussion. He's really good at opening it up for people to help understand the information. Meaning what can I do with this? Versus, oh, I know this. Muscle hypertrophy, volume, whatever it is. And he gives them practical things on how they can use it. And he's always open to people arguing with him too. Because I'm sure as a researcher he gets that all the time, right?

John Bauer:

Yeah. He is open to people posing their viewpoints. I would say that it makes sense because he's open. Because I've seen a lot of his posts where he says, "This is what I used to think. But now based on the more recent research, I now am leaning toward this." So he's very open to changing his mind as there's more scientific research that comes out. So as far as scientific researchers go, that's something that you have to respect. He doesn't have this hill that he's going to die on about how many reps you have to do or how much load you have to use in order for hypertrophy to happen. He's a researcher himself and is consistently in the weeds with all that research. And again, very open to hearing what others have to say and open to changing his mind when there's evidence that means maybe he should change his mind.

Jenny Scott:

Absolutely. And I love that about researchers in general too. They generally are looking for someone to fight back or give them something else to think about or consider because then that turns into their next hypothesis. They can turn that into something new. "Let me test that then, let's try it and see if it works. Because if it does, cool. If it doesn't, we just disproved it." So I think that's super interesting and really cool of him.

Question 5: Recent 2023 research suggests that resistance training at what percentage of one rep max can be just as effective as loads greater than 70% one rep max for driving hypertrophy?

Jenny Scott:

So speaking of Brad Schoenfeld, some of his recent research from 2023 suggests that resistance training at what percentage of one rep max can be just as effective as loads greater than 70% one rep max for driving hypertrophy?

John Bauer:

Yeah. And think about that, there was... I remember a time when if you wanted to get bigger, this is what... This was bro science at it best. But you'd always hear you got to go hard and you got to go heavy, that that was the mantra of trying to build muscle. And this is not only showing that you don't have to go that heavy, but you can go relatively light.

Jenny Scott:

Well, what's your guess? You didn't give me your guess.

John Bauer:

Oh.

Jenny Scott:

What percentage? We used to think, you're absolutely right, hard and heavy. 70% or greater of one rep max. But now they're showing that what percentage of one rep max or what range can you generally see results for hypertrophy under the right circumstances?

John Bauer:

Yeah, I was giving you my long-winded way of getting there, but I'm going to go ahead and say less than 50% of your one rep maximum.

Jenny Scott:

Yes, that is correct, John. So the answer is between 30 and 50% of one rep max or less than 50%. Absolutely. So lower load resistance training can be viable and effective ways to develop muscle hypertrophy and even strength in some cases. It's recommended that it's implemented two to three times per week, three to four sets per exercise, and loads no lower than 30% of one rep max. He also states in this research that more research is necessary and it should be a personal choice based on the individual's goals.

I really like this because it helps us... It's a way that we can reduce participation barriers and promote exercise adherence. People used to think hard and heavy, absolutely, but think of the average person that maybe wants to put on a little bit muscle. Maybe they don't want to lift super heavy all the time. Maybe that's too much for them. We're showing you with the right volume, the appropriate training volume. And I believe his number from previous research was 28 to 30 sets of an exercise of a movement per week, total. That's a big training volume, but you can do it at lower intensities, lower loads. So I think it's super interesting, John.

John Bauer:

And to add to that, I think not just beyond the average lifter, even the advanced people who were going hard and heavy for a long time, there's a lot of injuries involved with going hard and heavy all the time, shoulders, hips, back, et cetera. But imagine if you can get a lot of the same result or a similar result by lifting a lot lighter just with the high volume in order to make those hypertrophy goals. Now you're getting those goals, you're getting the muscles and you're taking care of your body and taking care of your joints as opposed to constantly putting the stress of so much load, so much volume all the time that just break down the body.

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Jenny Scott:

Yes, absolutely. Bodybuilders out there need to hear that. Like me. I love it. So yeah, lots of cool research that he's been on in the last probably 12 months alone. Some really cool revelations.

All right, John, before we move on, I want to talk a little bit about client boundaries. So this is not research-based, it's more anecdotal, but John, I know you have the answer to this one. I heard you were invited to a barbecue with a client, what happened?

John Bauer:

Yeah, so for our listeners, we were telling some stories about clients over the years and I was telling a story and it is to Jenny's point about client boundaries and where do we draw the line? I was newer as a trainer and I got invited to a barbecue and in my mind I thought, "How nice, how cool, I get to be close with my clients, I get to celebrate on the weekends with them, go to a barbecue, sounds great." And then go to the barbecue. And then turns out it's a family event. My client at the time, she was walking me around, she ended up holding my hand as we were walking around introducing me to the family and I start to realize, "Okay, I don't think this barbecue is what I thought it was. I feel like she's introducing me as maybe her new boyfriend to the family."

And it's just a funny way of sharing that in some cases, and I was probably naive at the time, but in some cases we need to make sure that we understand where this line is drawn and in some cases where... That our clients understand where this line is drawn, because after an event like that, it can create some awkwardness for sure. And trying to act as the expert and trying to lead your client toward a fitness goal becomes... At least for me, it became more difficult because now that line of me, the trainer and you, the client was kind of broken a little bit. And it did become a little bit more challenging for me to play that role of the leader and the expert and the trainer to my client in that case.

We're sharing this because it just makes sense to at least give it some thought as a professional and think about where to draw these lines because at the end of the day, you do want the professional side of the relationship to still be strong and you to still be able to play that role of the expert and the leader and the trainer for your client.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, thanks for sharing that story, John. Yeah, it's a funny way of getting to that same point. Yeah, you're absolutely correct. And I think every trainer out there has experienced some kind of maybe boundary issues, shall we say, or toeing the line if you will. So it's important to have those boundaries with your clients, you guys. Doesn't mean you can't go hang out with them, have a beer with them, whatever, go watch basketball with them or whatever. But just make sure that remains a professional relationship. It does make it a whole lot easier for you to do your job, but it also protects you as well. The last thing you want to do is get in a weird spot where now somebody thinks it's something else and you're not sure where that came from, but maybe you were giving them all the wrong signs. Just throwing that out there.

All right, John, it's time for your segment. What do you have for us?

Question 6: How do we make health a priority?

John Bauer:

Okay, this is Trainers Talking Truths, right? So we want to do a little real talk here and just cover a couple of subjects that I think are important. And we've touched on these already based on a couple of the studies that we talked about. The first one we're going to talk about is how do we make health cool? Now. We have some information here. This doesn't mean that we have all of the answers, but I think it's a good question for all of us in the health and fitness industry to really talk about. You'll notice I call it the health and fitness industry. And this is me trying to put an emphasis on the health part. And here's why, I heard this before, I don't remember where I got this from, but it stuck with me and someone said that "Your health will be your number one priority in life, whether you choose it or life chooses it for you."

And I think that's an interesting way to look at it because so to speak, what we're saying here is you could be proactive about being healthy or you can be reactive and prioritize your health once your health has already gone sideways. Unfortunately that's how a lot of it goes. Even Jenny in getting a lot of your clients and a lot of the clients that I got, I got them after they were told, "Your health's no good, you need to start exercising, go get a trainer." Whereas it would be great if we could make it more normal for people to seek out a fitness professional before it all happens. Because that's a way to prioritize your health before it gets prioritized for you.

Just some thoughts on how do we make health cool. One of them is to emphasize the benefits. So greater energy, better mood, increased cognitive function, better sleep, reduce chronic disease, increased longevity. These are all great goals to have, but they're oftentimes not the ones that are marketed to us. In some cases I get it, rightfully so. These are not the things that are marketed to us, but these are the things that at the end of the day are really the most important things. And a lot of these things can help to drive a lot of the more aesthetic goals that people have about looking different, looking better, reducing body fat, increasing muscle mass, et cetera.

Now, another thing we can do is celebrate diverse body types. So health does not only look like lean models and at some point when some people get so lean that it's actually working against their health, you can be plenty healthy and still have a reasonable amount of body fat on you. In fact, when you look up the healthy ranges of body fat percentage, those ranges don't necessarily include ripped abs and striations in all of your muscles. And the more lean you get, although you might look cooler in a picture, you're not necessarily getting that much healthier anymore. It just becomes more of an aesthetic goal as opposed to a health goal. So celebrating diverse body types and honoring the fact that people can look different and still be very healthy I think is one of the ways in which we can help to make health a little bit cooler.

Another thing is to promote the idea that health and fitness is for everyone. I think a lot of health and fitness marketing is pushed toward people who are already kind of into health and fitness and there's a lot of people out there who are not exercising, who are not into health and fitness because they have this idea of what health and fitness is and they think it's not for them. Now, I do think the world is getting a lot better about this than say 10, 15, 20 years ago. But it still is the case that a lot of people don't think of themselves as the fitness type or the exercise type. But at the end of the day, health and fitness is for everyone.

And then lastly, maybe incorporating some tech and some gamification. That's already happened, especially since I started. People got wearables, they got the watches, they got the [inaudible 00:29:39], tracking their sleep, tracking their steps. All of these things I think are cool innovations that help people to do some of the things like achieve that 11 minute walk throughout the day that we mentioned earlier, just get their overall activity up. So I think all of those can be really pretty useful things that can help to make health a little bit cooler. Now Jenny, any thoughts on how we can make the health part of health and fitness a little bit more emphasized?

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, I really like the first bullet that you had there talking to them about their brain function, their mood, their energy levels, getting better sleep. We all know that these are benefits of being healthy, being active, being healthy. You'll have good sleep, good mood, good energy. But a lot of people, I think, John, they don't know what that feels like. They just know what they experience. I always say this, there's a lot of people out there with chronic pain. "My back hurts, my hip hurts, my knee hurts, my shoulder hurts, my neck is always sore." They don't realize that that's not normal. It's just something that they experience so it's their normal. We should be relatively pain-free. And I tell my athletes that all the time, why should I ice my shoulder? You play volleyball, you play like a ricochet sport that you use this arm over and over again. The same motion. You should ice it. If it's ever bothered you, ice it. Even if it's not bothering you. Because the goal is to be pain free and stay that way.

But I think if we focus as fitness professionals on those things, meaning in the intake process or throughout our relationship with that client, ask them, "John, how did you sleep? Hey, how's your energy been this week? Have you found that you've had any dips during the day? How's your mood been? Has it been stable? Do you feel off? Do you not feel like yourself?" Ask these questions, make them think about it. Because when we bring up the questions now they have to be like, "Wait a minute, I don't know if I've thought about it." "I want you to think about it for the next week." Make them aware of it. And then if we can get them into some kind of exercise, even if it's just for a week or two, chances are some of these things might get better.

And if they didn't know what it felt like before and they weren't cognizant of it, when it gets better, they may not notice it. But if we point it out to them, "Hey, I don't think that's normal," or "Hey, let's see if we can maybe improve this, whatever it is, give it a week or two," maybe they'll be like, "That was noticeably different." And that becomes fun because they're like, "Oh snap. I didn't know how good I could feel because I didn't know how bad I was feeling."

So that's I think my favorite point that you made there, John, we really have to help people be aware of their bodies. Because one thing I always tell people is if you're in tune with your body, and that means different things to different people, but if you're in tune with your body and aware of what your body's doing or how you feel throughout your day... It's your day, you're the only person experiencing it the way that you are. But if you're aware of those things, you can change those things. So I think that's super interesting.

John Bauer:

Love that. Awareness. Awareness, for sure. And it also creates awareness on what winning in health and fitness can be. Winning doesn't just have to be bigger muscles and six-pack abs. Winning could be greater energy, better mood, better cognitive function, better sleep, less disease. All of those things are huge wins.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, absolutely. And then people get addicted to it. "Oh, that felt good. I want to keep going because I feel good, I feel better. I don't feel good when I do you know what I was doing." So they can get to it on their own. And essentially we know that intrinsic self-motivation is far stronger than extrinsic motivation.

John Bauer:

Absolutely.

Question 7: How do we discern scientific fact from opinions and myths?

John Bauer:

All right, number two. So we have one more piece of real talk. I'm going to talk about scientific literacy. So again, this lends itself to some of the things that we were talking about earlier. There's a lot of fitness marketing out there, a lot of confusing social media out there. So a lot of our leaders and where we get our information, who knows who they are, who knows where they're getting their information. So when I'm talking about scientific literacy, I'm talking about being able to discern scientific fact from opinions and myths, otherwise known as bro science.

And how do we do this? One, we want to attain some science-based knowledge in health and fitness. That's a good first step. Not all of us have to be at the level where you're a PhD like Brad Schoenfeld, but if you can speak the language of health and fitness at least a little bit, then you can better understand what you're looking at when you are reading magazine articles or seeing things on social media. So again, attaining some science-based knowledge in health and fitness and nutrition can be absolutely helpful.

So how do we know where to go to find good info? So Jenny mentioned this earlier. Not everyone is going to get into the weeds of reading science journals, but they are a great source of information. It's definitely evidence-based material. So great source of information. Now, books written by experts. So not books necessarily written by influencers. We're talking about books written by experts. There are reputable websites out there that are evidence-based and supported by research. Now, if you can start to get a list of some of these things going for yourself where you are finding your good information, maybe you guys have already bookmarked Brad Schoenfeld, then that's a good start because now you're seeking information about health and fitness, which is for all of us in places where you're actually getting science-based knowledge and not someone's anecdotal information or their opinions on health and fitness.

Next thing, you want to make sure, like I said earlier, understand some of the basic science. So know some things about metabolism, energy balance, macros and micros, exercise physiology, some of the different exercise modalities. If you know nothing about those things, then it's going to be easy to get confused. Nutrition, your body, your fitness, your health, that's something that is important for every single person. So it makes sense to know something about all of these things, nutrition, fitness, and exercise, so that you can make decisions that best serve you. One other thing to note is science is slow and exercise science and nutrition science are pretty new. So keep up to date. Jenny mentioned earlier about continuing education. Things are different now than they were 20 years ago. There's more information now. So staying up to date absolutely helps.

Seeking guidance from experts. So I mentioned earlier, how great would it be if people didn't wait for something to go wrong before they hired a trainer? What if they just hired a trainer because they prioritize their health? Not to mention a lot of trainers out there are actual experts in this information. So they can be the person that is helping you define your science-based knowledge in health and fitness and nutrition. Now all of this can take time and all of this can certainly take some effort, but when it comes to your health, it's absolutely worth it. How many subjects are there that you should know more about than your own health and fitness? I think it's a great question to ask yourself because I think a lot of us just don't know enough.

Jenny Scott:

Absolutely. Yeah, I say that this is our little shell that we're walking around in. You have to take care of your shell cause you only get one shell. It's not like we can leave our shell and go to a different one. We're not crabs. Yeah, this is awesome, John. People, there's a lot of information out there. And when you were saying bro science, I want to make sure that we clarify. Bro science isn't necessarily bad, guys. And I'm using air quotes here, you can't see me. But bro science, it's usually based in science. Somewhere back there it had a scientific or an evidence-based basis. But it's like a game of telephone. Either the longer time goes by or the more times it's shared, it gets distorted. It gets distorted. So usually it ends up just being incomplete, inaccurate, or maybe just old information.

Because some of the bro science out there was true when Arnold was big way back when. But maybe it's not now. To John's point, it's evolved in the last 15, 20 years. It's evolved in the last five years. There's things that we used to say like "Eat every two hours." What was that? That was eight, 10 years ago. And now they've disproven that. There's time and place for when you might want to do that. But for the average person, they don't need to eat that often. They've disproven that, it's not a thing. Same thing with the timing windows, when you need to eat before and after exercise. For the average person, it does not matter, but for some people, time and place. It might be a thing that they need to pay attention to, where the average person does not need to pay attention to that. So lots of cool information out there. Thanks for sharing that, John. Super cool.

But guys, hopefully this was fun. I thought it was fun. So let us know in the comments if you like this because we can definitely do it again, share some more research. This is actually something that's been on my ISSA bucket list for a while now, John, to share research. I'm into it so much that I just want to share some of these things that we're learning, what does it mean? But more importantly, what can you guys do with this information? So if you guys like it, let us know and we'll try and make this a regular in our little rotation here and get you guys some of the newest, latest and greatest.

But John, any last words, takeaways for these guys before we shut it down?

John Bauer:

I think the last points I'll make are just a reminder of the real talk rounds. We talked about the health part of things and how do we emphasize that? How do we get people to prioritize that, including ourselves a little bit more? Because there is the fitness side of things that is highly marketed to us, and I get it. I think it's cool. I love all that stuff. But health and long-term health and all of the things that contribute to health, I would love to see our industry emphasize those things a little bit more. And in some cases we have to make them seem a little bit cooler in order to get people to do them. And then the other part, the scientific part, learning a little bit can go a long ways toward your understanding of how to make better choices for yourselves. And if it takes hiring someone that's an expert like Jenny Scott, hiring yourself a trainer, then I would say do it. Because that information will go a long way toward your longevity and your health for a long time.

Jenny Scott:

Absolutely. Yeah. And last thing I'd point out, when you say making fitness cooler for people, guys, or making them interested and helping get them interested in it. You can't make people do anything but helping get people interested in things, it requires a level of rapport with our clients. So that means getting to know this person, what makes them tick? What things do they like? What things do they not like? What motivates this person? Certain ways that we say things might motivate some people and might tick off other people. So we really have to get to know our clients and understand what would be fun for this person or what would get them interested. Because everybody has something and it's up to us to figure out what that is. Take the time to build that rapport and figure it out. So I love it.

Thank you so much, John. Thanks for being here with me. This was fun.

John Bauer:

Thanks for having me. I want to do it again.

Jenny Scott:

Oh, I'm sure we will. I'm pretty sure we will.

But thank you guys for listening. Again, check the show notes for all the references from the research that we were talking about today. Lots of cool articles and journal pieces that you guys can go check out. But go out there, be fruitful in the world, do all the things. But above all, you guys, make good choices. We'll be talking to you soon.