Fitness Insight: Success Strategies for Trainers | Trainers Talking Truth

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In this episode, we delve into the fascinating world of athlete monitoring technologies and their profound impact on enhancing performance and reducing the risk of injuries.

Podcast Introduction:

Welcome to Trainers Talking Truths. This is an ISSA podcast dedicated to exploring the fitness industry and uncovering the whys and hows of personal training. To do that, we'll talk directly to the industry experts and certified trainers. We'll dig into fitness programming, business tactics, nutrition, and more. You'll even hear from current training clients who offer insight from the other side. We've got the fitness industry covered, so turn up the volume and enjoy the drive.

Jenny Scott:

Hello, world. Welcome back for another ISSA podcast, Trainers Talking Truth. It's your co-host Jenny Scott here with my favorite podcast co-host, Dan the man Duran. What's new, Dan?

Dan Duran:

Well, Jenny, it's a good day. It's a good day. I've actually been looking forward all morning to this interview, actually since yesterday because I was on a call with our guest and I was thinking about today and I'm just, I always say I'm excited, but I am, I am excited and I'm really looking forward to us getting to know Israel and having him share his knowledge with our listeners.

Jenny Scott:

Yes, I was actually telling him before we logged on to start recording today's episode that I've been in this industry for 14 years, worked for several different certification companies, several different fitness facilities, and between you, Dan, and all the things that I like, the places that I've worked, I've heard this man's name no less than 1 million times. So I'm super excited to actually meet him virtually anyway, and hear what he has to say. Cuz yeah, everybody, it's, he's one of those people like, you know, everybody, Dan, but everybody knows this guy, so I'm super excited. Before we bring him on, will you tell us a little bit about Israel?

Dan Duran:

Yes, yes. And, and I'm gonna go from a bit of a script here because I could go down some rabbit holes because again, I've known Israel for so many years, but Israel has a master degree, a master's degree in performance enhancement, and a bachelor's degree in exercise science. He's also affiliated with the Cooper Institute on their PT advisory board, which is pretty impressive. He's worked with or alongside many brands, including National Academy of Sports Medicine, American College of Sports Medicine. He's helped me here at ISSA. He's also served as the Regional Director of Fitness at Workout Anytime, which is what he's doing now, overseeing operations for their fitness division across 21 clubs, several states, four or five states. I'll let him talk about that. And here's my favorite part, as the Director of Education at PT Global, where I got to work alongside him, he led a lot of areas of the business including affiliate programs, also with health club partners, club account management, and he made some several trips overseas presenting in various countries. So he's been doing workshop, sales training, et cetera, for over 30 national gym chains. The guy's resume is long and distinguished and he's my brother from another mother.

Jenny Scott:

Absolutely. Well, welcome Israel Allen. Thank you for being here with us.

Israel Allen:

Thanks so much. Yeah, it's, it's a pleasure. I appreciate you you guys having me on.

How did you get into the fitness industry?

Jenny Scott:

Absolutely. So start by telling us how you got into the fitness industry.

Israel Allen:

Gosh. So I, I've done fitness longer than I haven't done fitness. I started when I was 20, I'm 42 now. And so I became a personal trainer because it paid more initially than Subway. And it's kind of one of those jobs, like sometimes you get started and you, you do it cuz you have a passion. You do it cuz you think you might like it. But I kind of did it until I figured out what I wanted to do with my life, and then I was kind of hooked. So I actually started with a company called 24 Hour Fitness. That was my first job. And you know, I had zero sales experience, zero personal training experience other than working out with some buddies, you know, at the gym, some old school bodybuilder lifters.

I was not a bodybuilder lifter, but I was trying to learn things from different people. And so I just was grasping and I wanted to do something that I thought would be fun. And I was working outta the gym, so I was like, well, this is a good twofer, you know, I can kind of train people and I'll kind of figure it out as I, as I go. And 22, you know, years later, I'm still hooked. I'm still loving it. A lot of different capacities along the way, lot of learnings but I wouldn't change it for the world.

Jenny Scott:

That's awesome. So what made you transition from being like a fitness professional on the floor, working with clients into more of a role, like what you're doing now?

Israel Allen:

I think influence, right? You get, you get to be kind of a peer influencer and then you look at maybe some good bosses and some bad bosses and you're like, Hmm, I think I could probably do a little bit better than that. And eventually you get to a point where you can only help so many clients and until you wanna help other people help their clients. And so I think that really inspired me initially to take that leap from personal trainer and a fitness director. And it's just, it's so rewarding, you know, getting to see your fingerprints, the things that helped you become successful, and then finding ways to replicate that with a team that, that is grasping and trying to learn and trying to build their book of business and find a way to turn their passion into a career. And so that was kind of my, my leap of faith and it, and it worked out okay.

Jenny Scott:

I love that. Yeah. I always like, think of it like walking into a big room and imagine there's 20 doors in a big circle around you, right? Everybody walks into that first room, that's when you get certified and you're working with clients every, there's a ton of people in this room, but you realize, hey, there's a door over there. Hey, there's a door over there. Where does this door go? And there's actually lots of different opportunities to expand in fitness, and that's awesome that you found your way to overseeing so many clubs and how many states you have with any Workout Anytime now.

Israel Allen:

So we're in five states now. Yeah. And growing.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah. And growing is the best part. That's awesome. Very cool.

What are the key qualities or skills you look for in a successful trainer?

Dan Duran:

And, and, and I think I'll plug that, you know, they're franchise groups within Workout Anytime, and I have it on personal knowledge or experience or whatever intel that their franchise group is by far the most successful of the groups. They do very, very well. And they win awards every year. They have a great team, of course, with Israel being a part of it. So Israel, let's go to the fundamentals here, the foundation. Let's, at the starting point of getting a job, and I love what you said, Jenny, I've never heard that before. You walk in a room and there's all these doors, and the cool thing is when you open one, let's say you walk through it, you end up in a room with a bunch more, right? So there's just so many opportunities in so many places to go in the industry, but you need to start somewhere. And most trainers start in a health club or training clients or getting a job, right? A j o b. So you, as someone who's hired hundreds of thousands of trainers over your career and hired people who hire trainers, what are some key qualities or skills that you look for in a successful trainer or you look for and go, you know what, yes, this is gonna be a good hire. This is somebody we want on our team.

Israel Allen:

Yeah. Such a great question. So again, if I'm a trainer on this call and maybe I'm newer in the industry and I'm thinking, how do I build my, you know, business? What are the things, if we really boil it down, what are the things that get me started on this that'll help me be successful? Then I get a chance to build on those things. So there's a couple of raw skills I say you need to have kind of out of the gates, then you can obviously refine those over time. But there's certain skills that it's hard to even get started without this. Kinda like trying to teach someone how to smile. You gotta have it. You either have to have it or not. So the first thing is you've gotta have great energy. You gotta think about, like, people typically don't like working out, you know, unless you're trainers.

And so you think, well, everybody should think this way. But most people are hiring trainers cuz they don't like to work out. It's something that's a necessary evil for them. It's something that is uncomfortable, is awkward but they are sick and tired of being sick and tired. So they start the journey. And so figuring out, you know, how to really tap into whatever it is that helps you be that morning cup of coffee, whether it's a 5:00 AM training session or a five or 6:00 PM training session. Energy is absolutely transferable. Energy brings energy. And so I think there's a lot of trainers that, again, that's one of those things you have to have it. It's very hard to get ahead in this industry without just great energy and great attitude. So that would be the first thing. 

The second thing is communication. And a lot of times when you hear communication, you think, well, I can talk. But can you listen? Can you ask really good questions? Can you keep an entertaining conversation about asking questions and finding out about that person? Right? And being empathetic, being relatable, building real rapport with strangers. Communication is a non-negotiable. You have to have good communication skills. I always said, you know, 80% of the job is communication. You know, a lot of times I would hire, you know, people from restaurants or bartenders because they at least get people in the door. They're like, oh, this is a fun person who I wanna spend time with. Then you kind of earn the right to improve the skill and the science and the technical ability with experience and with pouring into, you know, mastering your craft. But having those communication skills and being willing to get outside your comfort zone, go out and introduce yourself, meet a stranger, and find ways to be relatable to those people. That would be the second skill that I would say is really important. 

And the third that I try to coach is time management. And this may seem like a weird one, but ultimately you only have so much time and focus and presence of attention. And I think when most trainers are getting into this, they're just kind of guns a-blazing, and then they forget to return texts. They forget to return calls, they forget to manage their leads and prospects and people that, you know, sought them out initially. They forget to write their program designs. They forget to do measurements, they forget to do all these things because they enjoy the workout part, but they don't necessarily like the need-to-do. They like the nice-to-do. But the time management, how you start your day, how you end your day, what your rhythm around communication with clients and how you stay organized to really run a business.

 Those would be the things that I would say again, energy, great communication and your ability to manage time. Notice I didn't say anything about technical savvy and I think trainers get really caught up in I gotta know all this stuff. I have to have all these degrees and certifications before I get started. No, no, no, no. Right. Go through the, the basic things to get you started and then through experience, through trial and error, through pouring in mastering your craft and yes, learning some things along the way you'll get better. So hopefully that helps to answer your question.

Jenny Scott:

Dan, this sounds very familiar. Pretty sure that he's not the first person to say something like that, right?

Dan Duran:

That's right. That's right. Well, we all, you know, I would say, you know, here we are, three of us who've been in the industry for, for a long time in similar roles at, at times with a lot of overlap. And you know, we find that these are those foundational things. I used to say I learned it from my first fitness director was hire the personality, teach 'em how to train. Hire the personality and teach 'em how to train. 

How can new personal trainers get experience to feel comfortable in their role?

Dan Duran:

So on that note, what about those folks that are coming in maybe for a job interview or they got the job and or, or they're thinking about applying for a job and they have zero experience training people, right? They just got certified. They just, or they, they've had their certification and they're finally applying for a job. What, what recommendations do you have for them to be able to gain some experience or to feel more confident or to feel more comfortable in that role?

Israel Allen:

Yeah, such a good, good question. So I think a lot of trainers have a common misconception that I have to know everything before I get started or I have to have a ton of experience, otherwise people won't value me. People won't respect me. I won't have the credibility. But keep in mind, you always have to start somewhere. And my philosophy is you just gotta stay a day ahead of the client. And most clients really don't know a whole lot about exercise. It's not what they do. It's not what they're, you know, what they enjoy. And so finding one to two things that can add value to that client. And it may not even be exercise related. It might just be, you know, maybe motivational type stuff. You know, how to start their day and how to manage stress. How to find a work-life balance to be able to even make time to work out.

The, the workout is the how, but it's not the why. And so I think for a lot of trainers that are just starting out gaining certain experience, you can expedite that substantially by finding a mentor. So if you find someone that has already had proven experience in it then kind of just copy what they're doing. You can watch their rhythms. When I first started out as a personal trainer I was in a gym with trainers that had been doing it for much longer than I had that were doing some serious revenue numbers. These trainers were doing two to 300 sessions a month. These were full-hour sessions. They were making six figures as a trainer. And I was just watching them because I was like, that's what I think success looks like. And so I watched their rhythm and I sometimes a mentor is a mentor without even realizing that they're a mentor just by watching them. So more is caught than taught. And so sometimes just observing the rhythm, the work ethic, the interpersonal skills of more established, more veteran, more experienced trainers can be a really good way to expedite and gain experience fast. It's just like reading a book, right? You read a book for four hours, you're basically borrowing from 20 to 30 years of experience from whoever wrote that book. So you can condense that 30 years of experience in four hours of time. And so I would say, you know, again, finding a mentor and looking at you know, the clients that you have in front of you, finding ways to continue to troubleshoot and add value and, you know, solve problems for them, you're gonna pick up experience really quickly.

Jenny Scott:

Absolutely. So I would ask you too, and I know you have some pretty good insight on this, and I, I wanna dig into this cuz someone out there needs to hear this. When people are told that you don't have enough experience, you can't work here, right? Either when they're applying and they have no experience listed or they're in the interview process, or I've had people on our Facebook page, which I moderate, say, I got hired and then they let me go because I didn't have experience. What do you make of that? Like what do you think that's actually coming from, like our personal opinions a little bit here, but where do you think that's actually coming from, Israel?

Israel Allen:

Well, so I think it's a great question. I think it's twofold. One, I think a lot of times it's, it's self-imposed, right? So it's kind of like, I need all this experience in order to be established, in order for people to respect me in order to actually get a real career. And sometimes we do that for like a confirmation bias. So if we get that rejection because someone's like, eh, you're not really a good fit. Sometimes we convince ourselves what must be because I just don't have the experience that I need. That may not be it, it might be because of the things that we just talked about. Maybe the communication was off, maybe your energy was really bad in the interview and they're like, ah, these are kind of gonna be deal breakers. So I think that's part of it.

The other part of it is, let's face it, for people that are in the gym business most of the time it's kinda like raising a kid, right? That's a big undertaking. And sometimes they don't want to pour the time, effort, and energy into someone when they're brand new. So sometimes that's an employer issue where they're just like, you don't have the experience and we don't have the time to teach you what you need to know. Yeah. So if there's someone that may have better experience and their interviewing assessment is in a certain way, they may pass on that trainer just because they want them to have that. But as a trainer that had zero experience, I focused on my strengths and where I could add value, I knew that I didn't have experience. So I think it's all about also being a good interviewer.

What do you think the club wants? They want revenue. So finding the strengths that you do have experience in, and it could be, Hey, I'm great at, I've never met a stranger. I can go out and connect with people and instantly build up my clientele, don't need a whole lot of handouts, and I believe that I can add value and instantly increase your revenue. If that's something you're looking for, gimme a call. Let me know. I don't know if you're into that kind of thing, but you know, if you are, maybe we should talk. And notice I didn't say anything about all the degrees and certifications or lack of years of experience as a trainer that I had. I just found the need of the prospective employer that I was interviewing with. I found a way to communicate filling that need for them on the skills that I did have. And then I was able to hopefully close them in that interaction, which, you know, for us, that’s sales 101, right? Find the need, fulfill the need, close the deal. And if you're trying to get that job and you feel like you don't have as much experience as the next guy, guess what? You gotta go sell yourself. You gotta go out and market yourself. You gotta go out and figure out how to get a leg up. And so some of that is just, you know, being confident in the things you are confident in.

Jenny Scott:

I love it. Yeah. Confident to a point, right? Especially if you're just coming out and all you've done is read a book so far, like, temper yourself, sir.

Israel Allen:

That's right. 

Jenny Scott:

But Dan made a great point too earlier saying that if somebody tells you that, you know, you have enough experience and they either don't hire you or they let you go because of that, gyms are hurting right now for people. Like, they will take, not anybody, but they will take anybody who's qualified. Like they, everybody wants people. So Dan made a really great point before we got on today that like, that's not really a thing, right? Like, to your point, Israel, there's might be some other things that you need to work on or do better, or, you know, be prepared to do that would service their needs, what they're looking for. Yeah. Yeah, good point. 

How can personal trainers market themselves to attract new clients and grow their fitness business?

Jenny Scott:

Can you share some tips with our, with our listeners on how to effectively market themselves or attract new clients and grow their business once they do get hired?

Israel Allen:

So I think I want to answer this question in, in two ways. I want to answer it from the trainer that's just starting out as a generalist, right? They just got their ISSA certification, they're coming out and just trying to apply some skills out there, but they really can't be selective. Sometimes trainers will be like, well, I only wanna work with athletes, or I only wanna work with you. So okay, well build up a clientele first and earn the right to become very niche, right? So I want, I wanna be very candid there. Sometimes you gotta earn the right for your ideal dream scenario and be flexible along the way. For me, when I started out, I was like, whoever wants to train, I'm gonna train you. Then over time, I developed a niche in corrective exercise specialty.

So that was my thing. So that was the language of the club. If you have a knee issue, low back issue, shoulder issue, that's your guy, right? And I developed that over time to where I had a two-month waiting list to where I couldn't take on any more clients. I said, I can take you on, but it's not gonna be until, you know, September. If you wanna wait, totally cool. Otherwise I do have another trainer that's really good. And the reason is, is because I became very niche. And so because of that, you become known for one thing as opposed to trying to chase, you know, 10 rabbits. Now, initially being a generalist, coming on out of the gates. I would say, again, going back to how you market and how you brand yourself, if you're, and I'm gonna, again, I'm gonna approach the second part of this in two ways.

If you're an online trainer, you're not in a gym. So I wanna speak to both audiences here. You're year one, you're full of passion and excitement, but you don't even know where to start. Figure out where the problem is and the people closest to you and your network. Is it a weight loss issue? Is it a corrective issue? So knowing whether it's, you know, people on your Facebook group knowing what the problem is that you can solve that would be the first place I would start. And I would market that thing. So I might say, you know what, half the people on my Facebook page are overweight. I don't know why that is, but they are. So I'm gonna really, you know, specifically target, you know, maybe females between 30 and 45 that have kids that wanna lose anywhere between 20 to 30 pounds. I've got three specific things that I believe can really help you in losing weight, increasing energy and improving self-esteem.

So again, knowing the problem and then communicating and marketing that solution is marketing 101. But you also have to be good at that thing. The other thing I would say is, is in a trainer that's in a gym model, again, just like we talked about, having a goal of meeting as many members as possible. So the first thing you want to establish is some basic metrics. So, you know, the lay lay of the land, how many members are even in that gym? I would imagine that most trainers don't even know how many active members are in the gym that they work in. The second is how many active training clients are in that gym?

You gotta know the opportunity. In most clubs, it's usually only two to 3% of the member base that actually trains at the personal trainer. So having that as a mindset that 97% of the 5,000 members in this gym don't have a trainer. So now I'm focusing on, that's what I'm after. And some of the fastest ways, it's kinda like, you know, fishing for salmon, right? You want to go where the salmon are swimming. And so one of the fastest ways to do that is at the front desk. So meeting every single member and Hey, I've got a free 30 minutes. I don't wanna be scanning people in. Would you do me a favor? I would love to take you on that back and bicep workout that you had planned for Tuesday, cuz everybody's doing back on Tuesday. And it's a great way to, you know, market yourself to get to know people and then just having a goal associated with that.

So I'm gonna do five new member contacts a day at the front desk, I'm gonna meet five new people. And then from there, having that lead measure, that target that you're measuring and then focus on, well, okay, I've met 150 people in a month and I still am not able to build the clientele that I need. Okay, well that may be a closing issue or confidence in transitioning from free to fee. Okay. So we worked out, what do I say now? So that could be a skill issue, but in most cases it's just the trainer not knowing how to approach a new member. And, and that is marketing 101 is being visible, being active and engaging with members. And one of the fastest ways you can do that is actually at the front desk and on the floor. So hopefully that helps answer your question.

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Jenny Scott:

Absolutely. And in that last scenario, I would dare say that like some people are nervous about approaching people or talking to people. They, oh, it feels salesy. It only feels salesy when you feel like it's salesy, right? Like that's self-imposed, like criticism about it. Cuz if you feel weird about it, you're probably gonna make somebody else feel weird about it. But if you don't approach it that way, I'm not selling you anything. I'm just saying, oh, hi Israel, good morning. What are you working out today? Right? If we make it just a conversation, then it's nothing more than a conversation, right? It is what you make it.

Dan Duran:

You know, one of the analogies I like in this, Jenny and Israel, is dating or relationships or marriage. I didn't meet my wife and ask her to marry me. It did not work that way. It starts very small. It starts with a smile, it starts with a hello. It starts with a short conversation. Then that short conversation evolves into a little bit of time together, which could be a demo on the floor. Like, you know, I'm not busy today. I'd love to help you with the back of biceps workout you had planned. And then it might be a scheduling workout. Now I'm, I'm asking for a date and now I'm spending more time with them. But it's all relationship driven. You have to get to a point where you pull that ring outta your pocket. And at least in my case, where you feel like, you know what? I've built enough value, this is the right fit, let's move on to the next step. It's time. It takes time. And the keyword is relationship and a really easy way to help you with that, to Israel's point, with meeting everybody is memorize their names. Yeah. Because if you call, if I called my wife by the wrong name the second time I met her, we probably wouldn't be married right now. So,

Jenny Scott:

True story. 

What are some of the common mistakes personal trainers make earlier in their careers?

Dan Duran:

Speaking of mistakes, that would be a mistake. Israel, what are some of the more common mistakes that you've seen trainers make earlier in their careers that either forced them to say, you know what, this isn't for me. Or, it really impeded their growth and so they, they, you know, became discouraged or in the extreme issue they were let go because they weren't able to, to really evolve and grow in their role. What are those mistakes? What are the most common ones?

Israel Allen:

Yeah, I think a lot of these are common sense, but again, I think sometimes common sense isn't common practice. So, the number one thing I would say is you right now have zero clientele and people wanna work at different times of the day being flexible and accessible. Be flexible and accessible. A lot of train I get trainers today that wanna work a nine to one schedule. Okay, well that's when most people are working that could pay for training. So how's that gonna work out? So not being adaptable to build the business that you want and eventually work the schedule that you want once you have earned that. Right? So the first thing is just not being flexible and accessible in your schedule as you start to build your business. So that would be the first thing.

The second thing I would say is not doing what you say you are gonna do. A lot of trainers overpromise and underdeliver. They say, “Hey, I'm gonna send you that workout. Hey, we're gonna follow up on that.” And then they just don't do it. So then they just lose trust. So again, do what you say you're gonna do. It's always better to underpromise and overdeliver. So there was a podcast I was listening to a long time ago with a guy named Jonathan Goodman. And John was talking about, you know, birthday cards and things like that. Like, don't tell the client, Hey, you know, I got you something for your birthday. Just because then if you forget, then you break trust. Just get it. Don't say it and then surprise them, right?

But if you forget to get it, then there's zero expectations that they're gonna get anything. So, so I think that's another part of that is don't overpromise and underdeliver. The last thing that I would say is, you know, getting complacent with your education. A lot of trainers feel like they've arrived after that first CPT, but they don't consistently double down, triple down on their education. I don't say this to impress, I say it to impress upon you. I had 10 certifications in my first year and the reason is, is I knew nothing about training. And so I wanted to know everything possible about personal training. And so I continually got one after the next, after the next, like one a month because I wanted to be versatile in different clienteles and know different things. And I knew that education built confidence and confidence would help me sell the product. And so I doubled down initially in my first year of knowing everything I possibly could about this, this thing that I was gonna make a career. Versus a lot of trainers maybe just getting that first cert like, ah, I'll save up some money and eventually I'll get maybe that next one. And, you know, sometimes that's that weighs heavily on the confidence. So again, waiting too long to get that next workshop, that next continuing education would be another mistake that I see.

How important is ongoing professional development for personal trainers? What resources or education should trainers pursue?

Jenny Scott:

Absolutely. I think that actually brings me to my next question, talking about continuing education. So I am the same way. I was somebody who just got a whole bunch in the beginning. Cause I was like, Ooh, I'm not sure where I'm gonna go with this. Let me get as many of these as I can. Right? If you can afford it, if you have access to it, why not? But when it comes to professional development, say it's a year or two years into their career or even five or 10 years into their career, first of all, you need it to stay re to stay certified. I see people all the time who are like, oh, you don't need to recertify, you'll be fine if you're working at a gym. They don't even check. Wrong. Okay, you will lose your job especially cuz you're not insurable. Right? Lots of different reasons, but how important is that ongoing professional development, four or 5, 10, 20 years into your career? And what would you say are some valuable resources or certifications that you would recommend someone to pursue?

Israel Allen:

Yeah, I get asked this a lot. Like trainers will say, okay, well I'm gonna go for my next, you know, education. What, what should I go for? And so my question is the question that nobody likes a response to is it depends. It depends on what you wanna do with it. And so said, well, I just wanna build up my clientele. I want to build my business. So I said, okay, so you want to be a generalist because a generalist is gonna cast a larger net. So you think about fishing, you're gonna cast a larger net for the fish. You may not get quite as many croppy, quite as many bass, but you're gonna get the lump sum of a lot of fish, right? Then you earn the right to be a specific bass fisherman or a specific croppy, you know?

So the thing that I would encourage most is be well-rounded in the key areas that are gonna help people that you're gonna end up serving. Right? So I know ISSA has a transformation specialist continuing education. I firmly believe that is one of the most profound certs because when we talk about communication and behavior change, but also that's what we do as great trainers is we're changing behavior. You get paid to be effective at changing behavior and then the behavior hopefully turns into results. And then that's, you know, that's where your stock is as a trainer is actually helping clients get results. And then you get referrals from that. So something like that, that really understands the, you know, the headspace, right? The, the behavior change piece of exercise. Cuz a lot of trainers focus on the body, but they don't focus on the head. And so that would be the first thing. 

The second thing is something in nutrition, you know, there is so much misinformation out there on nutrition, and that's 60 to 70% of results with clients. Yeah. So it, the more confident you are about nutrition, the more you'll talk about it in session with clients and the better your results will be. So that'd be the second thing. 

And the third would be some sort of basic knowledge and strength and conditioning, right? Everybody needs strength. I don't care if you're 90 or you're nine, everybody needs strength. But appropriate levels of strength is so incredibly important in your versatility as a trainer to work with that stay-at-home mom or work with that CEO or executive or work with that youth or work with that disabled person that's coming to you. And your ability to adapt the program to meet the person and not the other way around is so important. So important. And so that's why I'd say those are kind of my three keys. After your certified personal trainer, get something in behavior change, get something nutrition, get something that helps you on the strength and conditioning front. 

Jenny Scott:

I love it. So for that experienced trainer out there who maybe only has one or two credentials, they're four years into their career, not even talking about having to recertify, right? Yeah. You'd still say find like, what are you, who are you working with at this point? If you're that deep into your career, and then find something that matches that, right?

Israel Allen:

Yeah. And then that would be the last piece is after I had, you know, 30, 35 clients, I got inch wide, mile deep on my corrective. So I ended up, you know, getting my master's in human performance. I got a lot of specializations, I spent a lot of time with PTs and chiropractics. Again, the mastermind principle, right? Surrounding yourself with people that are experts in their field. It's not just learning something online, it's surrounding yourself with those people, watching it. Most trainers are kinesthetic learners anyway. So surrounding yourself with people that are masters in that craft. That became my thing that I invested most of my time in after the basics was really becoming an expert in kind of the corrective exercise side. So whether that's strength and conditioning for one trainer whether it's nutrition in another or it's corrective, you know, finding once you get established, you have enough clientele and now you want to get real narrow and specific in your target, become the expert at that thing. 

Jenny Scott:

Love it.

Dan Duran:

Yeah. And you know, I was looking at us here on this screen and thinking about exactly what you said. Here's three folks with backgrounds in the fitness industry. All started for the most part with a certified personal trainer to work in a health club. Started as generalists and Israel to, you know, corrective exercise that ended up being where you went. Correct me if I'm wrong, Jenny, but athletic performance, strength and conditioning, athletes, younger athletes is Jenny. That drove me nuts. I started as generalist. I had kids, I had older adults, I had, you know, I had a big net and that wasn't for me. Kids drove me nuts. Athletes drove me nuts. And so what did I do? For me, it was weight loss and muscle building. Not in a bodybuilding format like what Jenny does, but more just, you know, I want to add some muscle or I want to add some strength.

That was, that was where my-- and pain free movement for older, like fifties, but not older adults 70 and 80. We all find where we want to go, but we have to start with that big net. I love that probably in bass. Excellent. 

What advice would you give personal trainers on how they can improve their networking and ability to build partnerships within the fitness industry?

Dan Duran:

So Israel, let me ask you another question. You know, Jenny mentioned at the beginning of the call that she'd heard of you in the past and certainly, you know, you're well-known in the industry that means networking. That means people have figured out who you are. And I don't mean that obviously we're not speaking in an arrogant sense. We're talking about how do you develop friendships, partnerships, relationships outside of just that circle that you're working with. And I'm gonna, you know, look at, I'd like for you to look at it from a couple of different ways.

One, being, building your business but also opening up opportunities because you may want to move on into a different club brand. You may want to move on into the education world like you and I did. You may wanna try something different and you're gonna want to have contacts out there and to be able to meet people or shake hands and kiss babies as I like to say. So what advice would you give, whether it's a brand new trainer or an experienced trainer, fitness coach, for how they can improve their networking and their ability to build partnerships within our industry?

Israel Allen:

That is a great question. I would say I'm probably not the best expert. I think most of my kind of quote unquote notoriety is just cuz I've served a lot of time, you know, like I'm an old battle-scarred general in the fitness industry, and I've worked for some different brands and, and been able to do some different things. But I would say, you know, again, twofold. If I'm a new trainer I want to get in spaces. I want to get in groups. One of the easiest ways to do that is join communities and groups on Facebook. I'm not a big social media guy. But I would say if I was trying to like, navigate the waters of this industry starting out, I would try to get on every group that I thought would be cool to be a part of.

Because you're gonna find a lot of information. You're gonna meet a lot of different people. You're gonna see some comments, see some posts and, and then reach out to those people. “Hey, can I find out a little bit more about this? Can I get five minutes of your time? I saw this and I really wanted to find out a little bit more.” So that's probably one of the easiest ways and it's free. So that would say that's part A. 

And then part B I would say, okay, if you're a year to two years in this and maybe you want to get into strength and conditioning or athletic training or maybe a more of a specialization, I would say find people that are already in that space. Most people that are established, they don't mind a little bit of mentorship.

You know, I think at this stage in the game, I've talked to Dan about this, you know, I'm very much in a learn-earn-return. Yeah, I've learned a lot, I've made pretty good money in this industry. And now my hope is to return back and leave a legacy and add value to other trainers that are exactly where I was when I first started out. And there's a lot of people out there like me that don't mind giving five or 10 minutes to answer some questions. I would just say be organized, be prepared, and be responsive. Because most of those people that are established are super busy and they don't have time to waste and play games. So, you know, you need to have what you're gonna say, you know, prepared and you have to be super responsive. But if you do and you're a professional about it, I think you're gonna find a lot of people out there that are willing to give you their time. And consequently you're building your network.

Jenny Scott:

That's awesome. That's actually what I was gonna ask you next, Israel. So if you walked into my Lifetime, right, that I used to work at and you were doing a session and then afterwards I was like, I came up to you, I was like, Mr. Allen, hi, I'm Jenny, right? I'm super excited, I've been here for this many years. We have to know, like have something to say and have some like be specific about what you want or would like to talk to them about. Because if I just said to you, oh, I just want to connect with you, I have some questions for you, you'd probably be like, oh my gosh, first of all, step back, you're in my bubble. That like next, like second like what? Like, I don't know what you want. So I don't know if I'm gonna have time for this. Like, you'd already kind of be checking outta the conversation. Correct me if I'm wrong, right? But if I specifically said, Hey, I really wanna master corrective exercise and do some of the things that you've been doing, I would love to pick your brain about that for about 30 minutes. Is that okay? Would that be something that would make more sense to say versus Oh my gosh, hi.

Israel Allen:

Yeah. And the more specific, the better because I can assess pretty quickly, am I gonna be the person to field this or should I redirect you to someone that's actually better at answering that question? Because I may have a network and I may point you in a direction that's not necessarily to me. Cause I don't need to be the expert on everything that I could say, Hey, you know what, I'm actually gonna connect you with someone because they're actually really good at that thing and I know they're generous with their time. So would it be okay if I connect you two on that? So I think the more specific as far as the outcome that what that person wants the better of value we can be as someone that's, you know, that they're wanting to maybe connect with.

Jenny Scott:

So I love that I equate that to smart goals with our client, right? Have smart requests when we're talking to people.

What are some strategies you have seen to be effective for marketing to clients and retaining clients?

Jenny Scott:

One final question for you today, Israel. What are some strategies or things that you have seen to be effective for marketing to clients and retaining clients? That's the key. Now of course, not everybody wants clients forever, but we want them for more than a month or two, right? They're not necessarily gonna see most results in a month or two. But how can our trainers go about retaining their clients in this highly competitive market?

Israel Allen:

So again, I go back to marketing. There is a great marketing book, again, as part of training, you need to know how to market yourself, but you also need to know about marketing cuz that is sales and that is how to gain clients. That is the first step. Then you look at how to train clients, how to retain clients, but you gotta get the clients first before you can, you know, put all the things that you learn into their toolbox. So there's a great book that's called Blue Ocean Strategy. I think a lot of trainers are competing in a red ocean. They're very much trying to do the exact same thing. It's very noisy, it's very flooded. But when you can find a target market that no one is really in or not enough people are in. I saw a guy that started a nonprofit specifically in people that had disabilities.

He opened a gym and it was specifically catered to people with disabilities. I've never seen that. I've been doing this for 22 years. I've never seen a gym that only caters to it. But also from a heart perspective, I was like, that's amazing. I'd love to spend time, you know, and grab lunch with this guy, right? So being able to find that blue ocean, you know, where not a whole lot of people are playing in that sandbox and then figuring out how to capitalize on that I think is an important part of getting, you know, above the fray in this. The other book that I'm reminded of is a book by Horst Schultz who was the CEO and CFO of Ritz Carlton. So if we know the Ritz-Carlton brand, they're a brand that exudes excellence, which is why they can charge what they charge.

And I think there's a lot of little service pieces that they don't teach you in a lot of certifications that I learned in that book. At the end of the day, when you deliver excellence, the cream rises to the top. And when you deliver that excellence, nothing will separate you from the hundreds of thousands of trainers out there that are average or just kind of doing the same thing as just delivering excellence in everything you do. So that would be the second thing to really separate yourself in a very busy market is just be excellent in everything you do

Jenny Scott:

Of that. And we're gonna list both of the books that he just mentioned. I'm already over here looking them up. We'll put the titles for you guys, so if you want to check out those books, we'll put 'em in the description for you.

Dan Duran:

I wanna piggyback on that for just a second because this is something I know you and I have talked about over the years and worked together on what is excellence, Israel? How do you set yourself apart? How do, how does your client leave you from a session and go, wow, I cannot wait to come back. There's that retention piece, right? I can't wait to come back and see Jenny again, see Israel again, see my trainer again. And then to the extent of they're sharing with their friends. It's like, this guy, this gal, this trainer is just amazing. What is excellence? What's that look like to you?

Israel Allen:

So we had an acronym back in the day that, you know was the five Ps. So it's basically being prepared, right? So you have that program design in hand. Being passionate, right? So that energy in session. Being a professional, so you dress the part right from head to toe, you make sure that you own an iron and you look the part but you're professional. Being punctual, Being on time. You start on time, you end on time. There is no room for, you know, kind of early is on time. On time is late, you know, and late is unacceptable. But that is what professionals do. And the last would be presence. Really mind, body and soul. When you're with that, that person, you are fully engaged, you're not on your phone, you're not talking to other people in the gym. That is their time and you are a hundred percent engaged with that person. And so those would be some things that we try to coach on how to deliver excellence in those categories of preparation, of professionalism, of being prepared, of being punctual, and also being present. And so that would be some anecdotal things that I would shoot for.

Dan Duran:

Mic drop right there. There it is. And I think Jenny was taking some notes on that. Mic drop.

Jenny Scott:

We’re here feverishly typing.

How can listeners connect with you to learn more?

Dan Duran:

So we've gotta wrap things up here, Israel, and so I'd love for the listeners to be able to know how to either contact you, learn from you, follow you, et cetera. And for the listeners out there, I'm gonna tell you from personal experience, very recent actually, I have a tendency to farm out Israel for advice and consulting and I've yet to pay him for it. So one of these days Israel, we’ll figure something out, but we had a call, for example, with a club building a high-performance team at Amsterdam. What, a month ago, I think it was? And, it was exactly what he said. I wanna know, please share with me exactly what you to know during this call so that I can be prepared. They needed to be prepared so he could be prepared. So I say all that because if you should reach out and, and want some advice or some feedback come prepared. And Israel is always happy to help because like he said, he's learned, he's earned, and now it's time to give back. So how would they find you or follow you, Israel?

Israel Allen:

I would say the most practical for me is probably not most practical for most of the trainers and the Gen Z'ers that are on here. I don't do a lot of social. So if you DM me, you hit me up on Facebook, it may be a year before I get back to you. But email, I'm very responsive. So, Israel dot Allen at Workout Anytime, and I'm pretty good at fielding those emails. And then from there, obviously we can have a conversation if needed. So yeah, that's probably the best way to find me, is email.

Jenny Scott:

Awesome. And like Dan said, like we were just talking about guys, be specific when you reach out to him, don't just say hi and like have a conversation. I get people in my DMs all the time who are like, so what's the weather like over there? I'm like, really? We're talking about this. I'm not sure what you need. Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you for offering that to everyone. And then where can they find more information about Workout Anytime, if they live where you guys already are or where you guys are expanding to?

Israel Allen:

Yeah, so we've got 180 clubs nationwide. Our group is the P Williams group. So we've got 20 of those clubs. But yeah, WorkoutAnytime.com. And then from there they have club finders. You can find our, our clubs all over the US, and our group is primarily again in Texas, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, and Virginia. So reach out and let's connect.

Jenny Scott:

That's awesome. Well, thank you again so much for being here. It was a pleasure actually meeting you now Israel.

Israel Allen:

Likewise.

Jenny Scott:

Absolutely. And Dan, any last words? I know we've had some great words of wisdom. This has been a longer episode than usual, but a lot of really good information was shared. Somebody out there needed to hear this. But Dan, do you have any closing thoughts for our listeners today?

Dan Duran:

Closing thought is gonna be just repeating something that I think was one of the biggest takeaways from this interview. And that is the five Ps. So again, be prepared, be professional, be punctual, be present. And whoa, I just missed the last one.

Present, punctual, prepared, professional, prepared. What's the last one, Izzy?

Israel Allen:

So be prepared, be punctual, be present, be professional. And now you got me stumped.

Dan Duran:

Well listen to the, it's the four piece folks. And take them with you. Take them with you because you will prosper. 

Israel Allen:

Passionate. Passionate. Dan.

Jenny Scott:

I was gonna say, I'm gonna remember this in the shower tomorrow morning.

Dan Duran:

Well, I wrote it down, but I wrote, I wrote present twice. And as soon as I saw that I'm like, uhoh.

Jenny Scott:

You had a brain fart and it was stinky. I get it.

Dan Duran:

Thank you so much. 

Jenny Scott:

Absolutely. Yes, thank you so much Israel, tt was an absolute pleasure.  Dan, always a pleasure. And thank you guys for listening. Re-listen to this one, share it with people that need to hear it. I know I'm gonna plaster this one all over Facebook, where we get a lot of questions about a lot of these questions that we talked about today. And definitely share, grow and, and we'll see you at the end of this. But guys, go out there, be fruitful, do all the things, and as always make good choices. We'll be talking to you soon.