Making an Impact in the Personal Training Business | Trainers Talking Truths

Listen to this Podcast Episode

Jenny and Dan talk to Gini Grimsley, the Director of Fitness Product for VASA Fitness and a Master Instructor for the Pain-free Performance Specialist Certification. They cover her role and the impact she makes in helping trainers succeed in creating great relationships with new members and ultimately helping those trainers to build their personal training businesses.

Introduction:

Welcome to Trainers Talking Truths. This is an ISSA podcast dedicated to exploring the fitness industry and uncovering the whys and hows of personal training. To do that, we'll talk directly to the industry experts and certified trainers. We'll dig into fitness programming, business tactics, nutrition, and more. You'll even hear from current training clients who offer insight from the other side. We've got the fitness industry covered, so turn up the volume and enjoy the drive.

Jenny Scott:

If you're new to the fitness industry and want to learn how to differentiate yourself and make an impact in the fitness industry, then today's episode is for you. Dan and I chat with Gini Grimsley of VASA Fitness about what a successful health club trainer looks like; her role in the industry-leading certification, the Pain-Free Performance Specialist with Dr. John Rusin; and why the client intake and onboarding process is so important for fitness professionals of all levels of experience. Gini has a lot of insight, so get ready to take some notes. Happy listening.

Jenny Scott:

Hello world. Welcome back for another ISSA podcast, Trainers Talking Truths. It's your co-host, Jenny Scott here, with my favorite podcast co-host, Dan, the man, Duran. How are you today, Dan?

Dan Duran:

Well, Jenny, I am excited. We are going to be talking about one of my most favorite things to talk about, and that is onboarding, or starting/building a relationship with a prospective or new client in a health club. Absolutely love that topic.

Jenny Scott:

Absolutely. One of my favorite parts about working with clients in general, no matter how long you've known them, is building a relationship with them. It's something that happens from the first moment they lay eyes on you and you lay eyes on them, it's like love at first sight. But also, we build it over time. It's something that we get better at building, and everybody needs something different from us, so this starts that process. I'm super excited as well. And I think our guest has quite a bit of insight, and you will see why. So, Dan, who do we have with us today?

Dan Duran:

Well, Jenny, today we have Gini Grimsley, and Gini is the Director of Fitness Product at VASA Fitness, where she creates cutting-edge fitness programming for VASA's clubs across eight states. She's also a master instructor for the Pain-Free Performance Specialist Certification, try saying that five times fast, and sits on several fitness industry advisory boards, and that's actually how we heard about Gini, was her course. And Gini is an accomplished Division I and professional basketball player.

Jenny Scott:

Nice.

Dan Duran:

Welcome, Gini, welcome.

Jenny Scott:

Welcome.

Gini Grimsley:

Thanks for having me, team.

How did you get started in the fitness industry and to where you are now?

Dan Duran:

So, very impressive background, and I only covered some of it. You'll get to share more of it. Can you tell us, Gini, a little bit about how you got started in the fitness industry, and how you got to where you are now?

Gini Grimsley:

Yeah, totally. I tend to get this question a lot, especially from our trainers in the gym, like, "Man, I want to do what you do," but they really just don't know all that I do, and I'll take a second to explain that. But let's go back 20, 25 years. I grew up playing every sport that I could. So sports, athletics, physicality has been in my wheelhouse from a very young age. And so, taking that into college to play collegiate basketball at the University of North Carolina Greensboro, and then going on to Europe to play a couple stints over there professionally. I've taken my passion for coaching, and I'm the kid of a coach, so I feel like it's almost in my blood to be able to coach clients now in the role that I'm in, coach other fitness professionals, to provide a service that is truly meaningful to the world, especially now.

And I know a couple of you sat through the PPSC course, which is much easier to say than Pain-Free Performance Specialist Course, and that's content written by John Rusin, Clifton Harski, and Logan Dube and Justin Farnsworth. John is ultimately the CEO and head of that organization. But it's content that helps make things a little bit more practical for newer fitness professionals, even some veterans. And so through that, my undergrad is in exercise science, so kind of a no-brainer there. Once I finished playing professionally, I went back to Appalachian State, sorry, Michigan and now, Texas A&M fans, I can happily say I got my master's degree from Appalachian State University in Boone, North Carolina. And since then I've been in the personal training industry trying to do just that, in that I want to have a positive effect on the community that I live in, but also the greater world, because the position I'm in now as the Director of Fitness Product for VASA Fitness, I have the opportunity to have a much larger impact, because I can reach more lives via the over 500 trainers that we have on staff.

And so along the way, a couple things that I learned early on was one, I need to work hard to make a name for myself, but two, I've run into some very special people along the way. Amy Boone Thompson has been one of them. When I started here in Colorado, gosh, almost 10 years ago now, she was our national director of fitness for a company here in Denver, and we became very close friends, again, connected through basketball. Amy is another six foot plus woman, so Jenny?

Jenny Scott:

Yes!

Gini Grimsley:

She's in our club. And she's been a mentor to me, to help me make decisions about my career, and push and challenge me to grow, to think of things that are outside the box a little bit, but allow me to continue on my mission of having that positive impact on my community and the greater good. So yeah...

Dan Duran:

So—

Gini Grimsley:

Sorry, go ahead, Dan.

Dan Duran:

No, no. I'm sorry. I thought you were done. Just going to say those are some definite A-Team players that you're talking about there. Amy, Logan Dube, we had her as a guest, Jenny, do you remember Logan? She was on... Yeah. Oh man.

Jenny Scott:

With John Rusin when we had him on.

Dan Duran:

Yeah, six, eight months ago. Yeah, right on. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, but since I did, can you expand just a tiny bit more on your current role, because that's going to kind of set the tone for some of the topics we're talking about today. So, what you're involved with there at VASA.

Gini Grimsley:

Yeah. So as a Director of Fitness Product, I oversee several different aspects, and the easiest way to kind of understand it is that anything that touches fitness in our gym, I have some purview over. So, whether it's education of our trainers, I do an internal webinar with our group every month and we cover different topics, just to make sure they have the most recent content, but have it delivered in a way that makes sense for our business. I also partner with folks like you guys over at ISSA, and some of the other certifying bodies, to bring in discounted education for our team so that they can continue to grow in the field. And that's kind of just on the personal training side.

On the other portions of my job, it's nice because it's never the same thing every day. I help our designers lay out our clubs, and select the equipment that goes into 60,000 square feet. So, I spend a lot of time looking at the AutoCAD software like, oh my God, I thought learning a digital PT platform was going to be a challenge, this is something wild and completely different.

But I'm using all the experiences I had along the way. The last company I worked for, I was always around and kind of help the maintenance techs move equipment. I'm like, "Just show me how to do it. I'm more than happy to help." I'm never going to turn down someone asking for help. And so I learned space planning in a hands-on version. So now putting it into a digital format makes it really easy, because I know the shape of the machines and how they're used. So that's kind of a cool piece. We most recently laid out our dedicated personal training space, and we're going through the process of updating all... 53 locations, probably, by the time this airs, to make sure that our personal trainers have a space that makes sense for them and their business and their clients.

So that's that part, let's see. Then I also write all the programming for our STUDIO RED product, which is our high-end, high-intensity, boutique-style fitness classes. So, 364 classes every year. The only day that we don't have a class is Christmas, because we're closed on that day. So every day is different, and it's just something special, and we've gotten into using a system with that to make it really easy, and my team does a really nice job of supporting that product as well. And then my team kind of oversees group fitness side of things, so what vendors and formats and education do we need for that part of the house? So, I get pulled into a lot of different things, which is nice because I'm able to take everything that I've learned in the last 15 years and apply it to this role. And again, like I said, have that positive impact for our teammates so that they can go out and relay that to the communities that we're in.

Jenny Scott:

That's awesome. Now just to pit stop real quick, for the people that aren't familiar with VASA, I am, my mom actually goes to one down here in Chandler, Arizona. You guys are in eight states, you have over 50 clubs. Can you tell us, Gini, what states is VASA present in, so the people that are interested in can, maybe, check you guys out?

Gini Grimsley:

Yeah, totally. So we've got a handful down in Arizona, where you are, Chandler being one of them. Utah probably has the most currently, followed by Colorado. We are in Illinois, Wisconsin, Oklahoma, soon to be opening up in Omaha, Nebraska, and then Indiana.

Jenny Scott:

Nice, great. So great opportunity for the Midwest and a little bit towards the West Coast of the country. Awesome. Phenomenal clubs, I actually did a photo shoot in one a couple years ago. They let me do it and they were like, "Make sure our logos aren't in it, and you're good to go." They were super cool about it, it went through management and everything. Great clubs though, my mom absolutely loves the swimming there. She goes to water aerobics because the water is apparently at the perfect temperature. So you fire that down the line, let them know they're doing a good job.

Gini Grimsley:

I will let them know, look, hey, 84 degrees, everybody wants that.

Jenny Scott:

She loves it. She's like, "It's so warm, I can do it year-round."

What traits make for a successful trainer in a health club setting like VASA?

Jenny Scott:

Anyway. So what would you say, Gini, are some traits that make a successful trainer in a health club setting like VASA? You guys obviously offer quite a bit, but what are you seeing are the most successful trainer there?

Gini Grimsley:

Yeah, I think probably number one is getting into it for the right reason. I think there are so many outside influencers, if we want to throw that term around, that say, "Yeah, being a trainer is easy. You get to come in, you can wear sweatpants, you can hang around the gym all day." Yes, that is part of it. We do get to wear very comfortable clothes, very comfortable shoes. And for me, shoes are probably the most important part of my outfits.

Jenny Scott:

Hear, hear.

Gini Grimsley:

Of course, basketball players and their shoes, this is a whole other podcast that we can have about that. But it's one of those things where, yes, that is part of the job, but at the same time, if you're just coming in because you're a fitness enthusiast and you want to do it for yourself... It's having the mindset of I'm coming in to create change in the lives of people who can't do it on their own, and I want to be able to come in and help people.

So if that's the mindset that trainers come in with, they tend to be a little bit more successful, because it's not a self-driven, "I'm going to be the trainer to the stars, and train over 10,000 different clients." No man, I want to have a solid book of 10 to 30 clients that I can train consistently throughout the week, and be the light spot in their lives. Because sometimes, folks just have rough days and need that. But yeah, if they understand what they're getting into, I think they have a much better shot at making it as a career, and not just a portion in a job.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, I agree. I definitely think that's the case, because yeah, some people just don't have the right expectations coming in, and it is a grind. It is a lot of work, it's a lot of effort, it's a lot of planning. Delivering the workouts, that's the fun part. But that's a small majority of what we do as fitness professionals. And even especially working in a club, of course, I've worked in a club, Dan's worked in clubs, managed clubs and such. There's all kinds of other things that go into working in a club, right? There's team cleans, there's admin, there's meetings. It's not just training 24/7, although hopefully you can build your book to where you're training a majority of the time.

What advice would you give to new trainers to get a great start in their fitness careers?

Jenny Scott:

What advice would you give to somebody that's new to the field to get a great start in their career? Outside of understanding what they're getting into.

Gini Grimsley:

Having a good set of expectations coming in, but understanding your first 60 to 90 days, you're not going to make any money. You're going to make, for most commercial gyms, you're going to make minimum wage, just because that's a couple weeks of onboarding, if the company offers that, it's going to be being on the floor, prospecting, getting to know the members, which takes a little bit of time. You'd be surprised. As a new trainer, going into a gym and just walking up to everyone and asking them for a session, you're going to get a lot of nos. So it's learning how to go about those conversations, and making sure that you're in it for the right reason.

And one of the things I always tell new trainers is when you're going into having those conversations, have something to offer that person that is not training-related first. "Hey, can I get you a fresh towel?" "Can I refill your water bottle?" What is something that I can be of service to you, before I ask you to do anything for me? And if you can do that, those conversations come a lot easier. But I think a lot of folks come in and say, "Yeah, I'm going to come in. I'm going to start training 40 hours a week right off the jump." And it's managing that expectation that it may take six months before you are at 20 sessions a week and performing regularly, just because it is a service industry, that you have to build those relationships to get people to trust you and to come in. You'll have opportunities, but the longer play is making sure that you've got everything set up in the beginning to have those opportunities down the road.

And that may require you to change your lifestyle a little bit. If you're used to balling out and having all kinds of creatine and caffeine, you may have to go on Amazon and order some in bulk. You can't get the top-end stuff. "I can't get the high-end protein right now, I got to dial it back. I can't eat Chipotle for lunch, I got to make my own burrito bowls at home." So there has to be... Understanding you're not going to make any money, but in order to stick with it, you may have to make some sacrifices that, more than likely, if you make them, will pay off in the long term. That you're putting the time into the gym, you're really focusing, you've got a plan.

And if you can do those things? Again, the chances that you make it in the industry are much higher. But if you're just coming in like, "I'm living my same lifestyle, my income is different. Oh, now I got to go get another job. Now I'm taking away from my focus of being able to do what I want to do." Now you're spreading yourself too thin, and you're just decreasing the chance of you actually making this a viable career.

What gets you fired up to still be in the industry? How has this industry affected you?

Dan Duran:

Very much so. I hear some really good sound bites for us to replay there. That's the reality of it, and I love it. So Gini, we were talking before we began the podcast, and you've been in the industry for quite a while now, and I'll let you put a year on it, because we were talking about your pro basketball, and then transitioning in. So you've been in it for a long time. Something brought you into it that made you want to stick with it. What I would love for you to share with our listeners is what is it now, still, that gets you fired up, that gets you out of bed, that says, "I'm going to go tackle the day, because this is what I work in, and this is what I do." And how has it affected you personally? How has it made you better, being in our industry?

Gini Grimsley:

Well, one, we have to keep up appearances. So there has to be some level of fitness for me to maintain, to keep up with all the young bucks. But I think at this point in my career, understanding that while I may not have that direct impact on clients, I can have an indirect impact on them, but it can be much larger because now I have the opportunity to influence the current generation and next generation of fitness professionals. I think the one thing that got me into it and kept me in it in the beginning was, okay, I graduate after playing and get my master's and all of that. My initial goal was to go into clinical cardiac rehabilitation.

Jenny Scott:

Oh, wow.

Gini Grimsley:

Well, if you look at the state of Colorado, the opportunities for that are minimal, because everyone here is pretty fit. So I'm like, "All right, well, I'm certified. I can go do personal training until something opens up." But once I got on the gym floor, and I was interacting with the members every day, and I built relationships with the clients that I had gained along the way, I realized that this was the path for me. And now, being able to get other trainers, new trainers, those brand new to the industry to get that same feeling of... Man, I've built some fantastic relationships, and these will surpass our relationship here in the gym, and be able to have lifelong friends. I just got back from vacation with a former client who, now, we are fantastic friends, because we had a great relationship, they moved away, but we stayed in touch, and we've been able to maintain the friendship because of the relationship we built early on. And we were just chatting about that the other day, like, "Man, it's been 10 years since we met each other, and now we're super tight."

But yeah, I think it's the impact on understanding where we are as a country. And I know I've told John this before, but some staggering statistics to think about. 74% of US adults are overweight or obese. Another one out of four, and this study's from the UK, came out this morning or recent last week, I saw it this morning, one out of four report feeling unwell, sick, and socially unwell. So there's a lot that needs to happen. And personal trainers, fitness professionals are the front lines of that. So being able to tackle that head on... And think about it, think about my own family, your own family, who, in our immediate circles, are dealing with some of these things, and how can I be that positive influence for them to even make some of the smallest changes that will have a great return?

So, I'm not just doing it for the industry, I'm also doing it for my friends and family who are going through some of the same struggles as well. Because three out of four folks, who are putting a lot of extra stress on their joints, a lot of extra stress on their heart and lungs, that just doesn't make for a better future for us, it actually makes our battle that much harder. So tackling it early to make the fight a little bit easier down the road is probably the ultimate goal there.

Jenny Scott:

I love that you're the ultimate warrior, though. You're fighting for those bigger causes, but you're doing whatever you can do, even if you feel like that impact is small, that's the key, there's still an impact. And if you help one person today, that's one person that you didn't help yesterday, right?

Gini Grimsley:

Dude, every forest fire starts with a spark, right?

Jenny Scott:

Yes.

Gini Grimsley:

That's all it takes, is enough of us creating these sparks, and we'll start to create bigger and bigger changes. But it takes that initial spark to do that.

Tell our listeners more about the PPSC (Pain-Free Performance Specialist

Certification). What is it and

what do participants learn in that program?

Jenny Scott:

Yes. Now, speaking of one in four people feeling unwell on the regular, that's insane to me. So many people are just... I feel that all the time. People are like, "Oh, my back hurts, my hip hurts, my leg hurts." My fiance today, "My foot hurts." I'm like, "God, there're people walking around in constant pain like this, what is wrong with us?" And we can absolutely prevent this stuff or fix it. But tell our listeners a little bit more about the PPS... So, Pain-Free Performance Specialist Certification, PPSC, that you are a part of. What is it, and what do participants learn in this program? Because it's actually something that I was hoping to take, John, my coworker here, beat me to it! But I've heard it's amazing.

Gini Grimsley:

Yeah. So the entire ecosystem of the PPSC, it started as the kind of Foundations course that John sat through with me a couple weeks ago. But it's turned into this entire ecosystem of knowledge that helps personal trainers take the bits and pieces that they've learned about specific tools and specific programming, and package it up really nicely to better service their clients. And so the Foundations course, which is what most people have gone through at this point, really helps the trainer understand, all right, if I'm in pain and I'm a fitness professional, how on earth do our clients feel who have minimal knowledge about their bodies, the systems within the bodies, and how they should be training to optimize what they're doing? Because the ultimate goal is to optimize the individual's human movement system.

And so with that, this initial Foundations course goes through a six-phase warmup that primes the body, really prepares the body to train, more so than a general warmup would, but then also the movement patterns and how to screen and assess those in a way to not make the assessments feel super medical or scary, but as a way to help people establish a baseline of movement and ability, and build from there. Because there's so many screens, there's so many sets of assessments that are out there that say, "Yeah, you can't do this until we knock out this." But with this, we just want to establish a starting point, and build them up from there, and fill in the gaps along the way. And that's kind of the whole premise behind the Foundations course.

And then the level two course, or a modalities course, goes through the different types of set and rep schemes, loading, accommodating resistance, some of the other pieces that go into that. Then there's a Kettlebell course. And so John and the team have really done a nice job of building out this entire ecosystem that addresses the needs, or the common needs, that most personal trainers have after they sit through their initial certification. So whatever their CPT is, it doesn't matter. It's built these systems that you can plug and play your knowledge. So if you go and get a foam rolling certification, fantastic. You have extra knowledge, you can plug it in there. If you do a corrective-based workshop, you can take that and plug it into the system. And so it makes it really easy to have a system to follow, but still individualize it to the person that you're working with.

Jenny Scott:

Absolutely. And to anybody who's interested in this credential, I strongly suggest looking into it. We get people all the time, Gini, asking about live events. "I want to attend an in-person workshop. You can't learn this stuff from a book." Guess what? You can learn it, the foundations, from a book, but you guys are 100% right, those of you who think that way. Learning it in person, being able to ask questions and actually do these things, is tremendous. So for those of you guys who appreciate in-person learning, they have great opportunities, and you guys are all over the world right now. I've seen you guys all over Europe, you guys have seminars and sessions that you do all over the world, right?

Gini Grimsley:

Yeah. And they've got the schedule out, I think all the way through the end of the year. So, pop on the website, I'm sure you'll throw it in the show notes, but yeah, John, Cliff, Justin, Logan, do a fantastic job. And there's obviously us master instructors who teach for the group too. Kevin Mullins, Roman Rodriguez, David Skolnik down in Chandler. So they're really smart people. I'm lucky to be a part of it, because they're way smarter and probably curse less than I do.

Jenny Scott:

I don't know, you didn't meet Jordan Syatt yesterday.

Dan Duran:

I was just about to say, I don't... And then I was like, do I say anything...

Jenny Scott:

Great guy, but curses like a sailor.

Dan Duran:

Oh man, does he, and I'm not even sure if we beeped those things, but I think it'd be more fun to even listen to it with the beeps.

Jenny Scott:

Right?!

Dan Duran:

I kind of like it. Yeah? Well, that's a lot of beeps.

Gini Grimsley:

Sometimes you need specific answers, right? You got to drive your point home in a very specific...

Dan Duran:

That's right.

Gini Grimsley:

... specific way.

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What is the most important thing a personal trainer can do when meeting and onboarding a new client?

Dan Duran:

Gini, I love what you're saying about the population, the one in four... I don't love it, but what I mean by that is for our listeners out there, a couple of things to key on that before we switch gears, is if one in four, and I would submit that there's probably even more than that, that are uncomfortable, that have some kind of owie, or some kind of thing that's bugging them day in and day out. Couple things, number one, that's generally, generally, an older population, older as in 30 years old and up. Somebody that's established in a career. So there's point one, that means they have an income.

Point two is you can't put a price on pain management. So we're out to save the world, we're out to walk the talk, we're out to make it a healthier place and take that 74%, bring it down, but we also need to make a living. And the folks that are in pain will do anything to have some kind of relief from that pain. Most of you probably know somebody in your life where you've seen them in that pain, and how desperate they are for help. So you can help the people that need it most, and you can absolutely tap into a specialty that's going to supplement your income, or maybe become something you exclusively specialize in. So there's a little business piece add.

But what I'd like to do, Gini, is switch gears, because we're kind of bouncing back and forth, and it's all going to tie in together in the end, is switch gears back to health club. So, when your trainers, your coaches are onboarding new members, what would you say is the most important, or even the top three most important things to making that first meeting with a member, or a prospective member, memorable, important, impactful, et cetera?

Gini Grimsley:

I think number one, the person across from you should discover more things about themselves during the conversation than they discover about you as a fitness professional. Because nobody gives...

Jenny Scott:

Well stated.

Gini Grimsley:

They don't care. They want to know, "Here I am, here's my story, here's what's going on. Now what?" Right? It's not about how many people you've trained, or how many letters you have behind your name. At the end of the day, those things really don't matter. It's about the human connection that you can make during that initial sit down. And a lot of the trainers who skip that portion, and go right into the fitness piece, miss out on building those relationships for long-lasting client-trainer relationships. That is the number one goal, is treating the person as the human first, and then helping them better optimize themselves down the road. And if you can do that, it doesn't really matter what screens and assessments you do later in the workout, if they have your absolute trust and engagement, you're going to be fine.

So yes, I think that's the number one, overarching, put a period at the end of it. Let them know that you are there to hear about them and to hear their story, because they are the experts in their lives. You might be an expert, but you're not an expert about them, and they're the ones who need to share what's going on with you first before they ever know anything else about you. And when I was on the floor training full-time, I built that into every single session that I did. It's like, they can know a little bit about me, but at the end of the day, it's not about me, it's about them, and how I can be the guide along the way for them. So, I don't really think we probably need to list out two and three, because that one is so important.

Dan Duran:

I love you! Oh my gosh. So, I don't know what John shared with you, but today, we are releasing our new program design model, and it's called Purpose Driven. And it's exactly what you just described, to the T. I see you teaching this sucker for us. It's exactly what you just said. So, thank you for putting a period on the end of the sentence that we wrote and are kicking out the door today.

Gini Grimsley:

Oh, look at that. Great minds.

How do you incorporate some of what you do with PPSC into the new member onboarding process?

Dan Duran:

Yes, yes! So Gini, how do you take what you've learned and what you teach in the PPSC, and with the onboarding experience that you have, and making it about them, how do you take and tie those together in your integration? Or have you? And what does that look like, and how effective has it been?

Gini Grimsley:

Yeah. Well, let's go back probably three years now. Yeah, right after March 2020, when the world stopped for a moment, we took a pause and said, "Hey, we need to retool how we're doing our new client onboarding setup." Right? Before it was just like, "Hey, we're going to come in and chat with you, maybe do an InBody, blast you with a workout, and then beg you to buy Tramium." It's just not a successful strategy. And I know there are some folks who still believe in that, but I think we wanted to align our onboarding approach with our entire company mission and approach, which is make sure that people feel like they're a part of a community, that they feel included, that this is the place that actually uplifts the entire community. And so we wanted to retool our new member... Or new client onboarding process for that.

And so I wrote an entire, probably, 200-page guide of all the resources that I had taken and saved along the way. And that's a resource that our team has access to. But then with our intake session, it's, okay, we need to figure out how do we involve all the different components that we want to touch of getting to know the person, understanding how people move, and then providing them with a solid recommendation that doesn't feel salesy. And so we built out that, and I borrowed, and adjusted to meet our needs, the Plan Smarter Strategy Session from the PPSC to do that, because it's not really quantifiable, but it gives you a ton of information, it's easy to coach and teach through, and you can build a program from it. And so, I could have gone and plugged and pulled and done a bunch of different assessments that made it feel more fitness-y, but we wanted it to feel a little bit more like a workout that was manageable for 80 to 90% of the people who go through it.

So, if you look at how we go through our initial conversation, a lot of motivational interviewing skills in the first part, we go through a progressively more difficult workout, we call it, but it tells us all the information we need. And then we put those two things together that we learned via motivational interviewing, what we saw and also heard during that workout, and now we're able to provide a recommendation there. And it works really nicely for us. But yeah, we were able to systemize, and I think it doesn't really matter how you go about it, but there has to be a system for how you do this intake, that can be replicated person after person after person.

And I always tell our trainers, "Guys, I hate to tell you this, but I've probably done this whole consultation deal probably three to 500 times now over the last three years. I'm not bored with it. So the fact that you're telling me you're bored with it, is telling me you're not bought into the information that you can get, or you don't understand." Which, either I'm fine with, and we can have a conversation, but I want to make sure that you see the value in the system, and where you can actually plug in your personality and your additional knowledge that you have. Because I haven't sat through every single certification that all of our trainers have. I've gone through most of them. But to say, "Hey, here are your opportunities to make it your own a little bit, while still following the same play."

Because you get into a flow, now you know how to manage your time, now you know how to manage the intensity of the workout, versus just saying, "Yeah, we're going to give you a showcase workout, and we're going to do these five exercises, and you're going to be so damn sore tomorrow that you don't know what to do with yourself." And that's not in the best interest of that person who's trying to make some changes in their lives. They just want to know what they can do, how they can feel good about it, and then you can start to build them up from there. And that's the system that we've put in place at VASA that we've borrowed from PPSC, we've borrowed from the psychology world with motivational interviewing. We've borrowed some sales tactics from other groups. So we've taken a lot of different things, and put them together in a cohesive system that works for our mission statement and our values.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, and I think this all relates back, Gini, to when we talked about what people need to know getting into the industry if you're brand new, like have reasonable expectations, but this is also a part of longevity, being able to do these things. Yes, you go through the same process over and over and over, day in, day out, but every single time you do it should end you at a different output. It's a different human being sitting in front of you. It's a unique person. So if you're saying, "Oh, it's always the same." You're not doing it right. If you're not using the system, you're not doing it right.

So there are people like you guys who have put together these amazing systems, like what we put together, that hopefully, people will use that makes this process, to your point, you used this word earlier, simpler. It's not easy, and it's not not work. It's just simpler. It doesn't need to be super complicated, but this is going to get you, like you just said, all the information that you need about this person, help you put them together in their first workout. But you said it as well, it'll help you build an actual program, which is what most trainers struggle to do, they can't put together a program that makes sense for the human being in front of them, and they fail in this industry. So, I think what you're saying is absolutely clutch.

Gini Grimsley:

Yeah. I mean, think about it. There's 8,000 different sets of screens and assessments you could roll someone through, which are all beneficial, if... Which is the big part, like you said, can you take that output and now build it into a 6, 12, 24-week program that helps that client move closer to their goals, helps them get stronger, helps them move better, helps them feel better, shit, whatever it is. If you can't do that, then those screens and assessments aren't worth the paper they're printed on. So yeah, you guys are spot on with help the person feel successful, and then we'll figure out the rest. But you got to have the right selection of work, to give you the output, to then be able to put it into that program.

Jenny Scott:

Yes. Love this. So important. And there's lots of... I loved what you said to you though, that you guys borrowed things from other places. We did too, right? No one company has trademarks on all of this stuff, right? Movement categories? That's not trademarked. It's just some people use it, some people don't. When you do use it, we've started using it, and John actually brought that to us, my peers, so he brought that to us, as like, "We should present it this way, maybe this will help people understand it a little better." And that kind of branched us off into our program design model that we've created. And similar for what you guys did, use those things that are out there, put them together into a way that makes sense for you guys and your business. You said that earlier, it has to work for you and your business, and then deliver it. And then, of course, make changes along the way, adjust things if needed. But you'll find the perfect system for what you are doing and who you are working with.

Gini Grimsley:

Yeah, even if you're in a commercial setting or independent or online, I think at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what the system is, as long as you have something that you can follow time after time after time. Because the more consistent you get with those systems, the more consistent results you're going to get. And at the end of the day, like Dan said, we want people to be able to stay in the industry longer as professionals, and this is how you do it. It's not just winging it and coming up with it on little scratch notes and then saying, "Oh, yeah, yeah, I got your program right here, this is what we're doing." It's like, no, man, let's put a little bit more thought and time into it. And it does. It's the non-sexy part of the job, but at the same time, it's what makes the sexy part of the job even better.

Jenny Scott:

Absolutely. And then to add onto that, continue your education. So like the PPSC or additional... You're interested in programming? Go find some more on programming. Read the Strength & Conditioning journals. There's all kinds of things out there, that that research is constantly evolving on this stuff. And I don't know about you, Gini, but I thrive on when people ask me questions? I can give you a distinct answer. I can tell you where I found that information. I can tell you what the research is saying, just like you did. You were giving us a couple research articles that you just read. We're constantly staying up with that.

And actually this morning, two of my college athletes pulled me aside and were like, "Hey, we aren't quite seeing..." They had not heard the parameters for power training. They were like, "Our perceived rate of exertion is too low. We shouldn't be below 60%." I was like, "It's power training, though. It's not strength training." And I was like, "I'm happy to send you the research." So I sent them a three-page email this morning with probably 20 links and descriptions of the studies. And I was like, "I'm so excited to share this with you guys." And being able to share that, and to make sure that I know what I'm doing.

My program is not just… I didn't just walk in today and be like, "Hmm, that machine over there looks cool. Let's do that." And you see a lot of people doing that, too, where they don't have any idea what to do, so they just kind of take what's empty if they're in a commercial club, or they're like, "Well, this is all the equipment I have, so we're going to do the same thing every time." But if you understand this material, you're learning about it constantly, staying current with the current trends and research, it makes your job a whole lot easier, right?

Gini Grimsley:

Totally. And here's something I realized, oh gosh, I don't know, probably early last year. I'd say, and this is not published anywhere, this is all anecdotal, so take it for what it's worth, I'd say 50 to 60% of those who are getting into personal training have never followed a program on their own. And I know, I'm not trying to change the subject, but if you think about it's hard to write a program for a client if you've never followed a structured program yourself. So, you're asking someone to do something that you were either not able or willing to do. So, you got to, as the fitness professional, keep in mind, like, "Man, I am my first client, so whatever I do, whatever I'm trying to do, I need to at least practice on someone.” I'm probably the most willing victim or client to be able to try these things out.

Because some combinations of exercises may look great on paper, and they completely blast and destroy clients who are paying money. So don't ever experiment on paying clients. But also, you need to understand what you're asking your clients to do. If you can't follow a 12-week program, how easy do you think it's going to be to get someone who has less fitness knowledge than yourself to follow this 12-week program that you've devised with the latest and greatest? If you don't buy into it, they're not going to buy into it.

Jenny Scott:

Hear, hear. Well said.

Dan Duran:

Mic drop, mic drop on that, for sure. And for your anecdotal numbers, I would 100% agree, and I actually think it's probably higher than that. And to kind of put a print on that one, not only will they know what it's like to follow a program, but if it's well written, they'll get to see what the results are. Because with a good program, you get results. You get results. If you get the sleep, you get the nutrition, obviously there's other components to it, but you actually get results. Instead of, Jenny, you said, "Whatever machine is open", and I'll add to that, "Whatever video you watched on Instagram this morning", that becomes the exercise of the day.

Jenny Scott:

You can always tell, too, when somebody... I follow all those people just to see what people are talking about, because people bring that stuff up to us all the time. And if you aren't aware of who these people are that are posting, it makes it really hard to have a conversation with people about it and maybe talk them off a ledge. But yeah, you can always tell, you go to the gym that afternoon or that week, and everybody's doing the same exercise, you're like, "Where did you even learn this?" Right? Because they're like, "Oh, well..." You know they saw it somewhere online. Because everybody in here is doing the same thing. That's weird.

How can listeners connect with you to learn more?

Dan Duran:

I think, I know Jenny would agree, that we could talk about these topics and talk to you all day long, but we've got to wrap things up here a bit, Gini. So, how can people follow you or find you? And are there any last points you want to make, to make to our listeners here?

Gini Grimsley:

Yeah. Before “where you can find me,” I think number one, for those who are getting into the industry, understand it is not the easiest. On paper, it's probably the simplest, like Jenny said, but it is probably one of the most gratifying jobs you can do. There are days that I'm sitting in the office here like, "Man, I really wish I was on the floor training clients, because that was so fun." But it is, the benefit that you have and the ability to reach people at a different level, to get them to do things that they previously thought they could not do, is such a gratifying feeling, that if you are in this for the right reason and you have that first client that you have that great experience with? That's going to be the catalyst for the rest of your career. So if you can do that, you can find those things that help other people, and find gratification? You'll be fine.

So it's not easy. And then the other piece is one, you do need to make a living, so sales is a part of the job, but it's not sales if you can truly propose your value in a way that meets the needs of the person in front of you, that shows that you've listened, that shows that you actually care about their wellbeing moving forward after this initial interaction, whether they buy training from you or not, that just means you're interviewing for one of their friends or family that they're going to refer you to. So if you keep those two things in mind, it's not easy, but it's gratifying, and you're always interviewing, you'll be just fine in this industry.

Jenny Scott:

Great point.

Dan Duran:

Nice.

Gini Grimsley:

All right. And to find me, I've made it super easy on the Instagrams. It's @gdotgperiod. All spelled out. Put it in the show notes, because people are going to be confused, like, "What does that even mean?" So it's G-D-O-T-G-P-E-R-I-O-D. So I'm on Facebook and Instagram. And then I'm speaking, I teach for PPSC, so you'll probably catch me at some of those events for the rest of the year. And then I'm speaking at both IDEA events here, stateside, in a couple weeks at the Personal Training Institute, and then at World IDEA Convention in July.

Jenny Scott:

Yes! I'll see you there.

Dan Duran:

Yes!

Gini Grimsley:

And then I'll be around. I am the chair of the NSCA's, which I know is not affiliated with ISSA, Personal Training Development Group, too. So I'll be at all of their... I know, every month, I get it sent over.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, I love their journals. I'm subscribed on my own this year. I was like, "I'm doing it. I'm biting the bullet." And I got the paper ones, I love them.

That's awesome. Well, definitely check her out, you guys. Thank you so much for sharing all your expertise. Phenomenal career that you've had so far, and I only see you going up from here. You look like a baby, so I'm sure you still have, what, 50, 60 years to go? You got plenty of time.

Gini Grimsley:

Oh my gosh, yes. All the time in the world. As long as don’t I get my grays in, I'll be pretty good.

Jenny Scott:

I forgot about gray hair, by the way. I always thought getting old, and my joints are achy, and a couple weeks ago, you guys, Dan, I didn't tell you this. I got my first gray hair. I was looking and I was like... And I plucked it, and then I went to my hair lady to get my hair done, she was like, "Oh yeah, there's a couple more back here." I was like, "Get them!" She was like, "I will not pluck your hair. We're not doing this."

Dan Duran:

And I'll tell you my eye-opening moment, and then a more recent one, was when I was 30, and my barber ran the clippers inside my ear. I'm like, "Why is he clipping inside my ear? I don't..."

Jenny Scott:

Gini and I just both did eyebrows, like, "Woo..."

Dan Duran:

Yeah, and I'm like, "What are you doing, man?" He goes, "I'm trimming your ear hair." I'm like, "What? I have ear hair?" So, there's one sign of aging. And then lately, in this last year, when I go and speak to people or deliver presentations, I've been asked more than once to talk about longevity in the fitness industry. I'm like, "Hmm, I think they're trying to tell me something here!"

Jenny Scott:

You've been doing it for decades, and decades, and decades, and decades... That's awesome. Well, thank you, Gini. I know, again, a lot of people looking for live events. I posted something this morning about it. Somebody was asking me, "What are some great live events?" There's a lot of blogs out there, you guys, that list out all of the different events coming up for 2023. There's some amazing events coming up, industry related and for actual fitness professionals. So, if you're interested in live events, getting your CEUs, learning in-person from people like Gini and Dan and my coworker John, then definitely check out some of these live events. PPSC, amazing credential, definitely check it out. Great two-day workshop opportunities, fully hands-on, a group of like-minded individuals all get together in the same room, and just blow things up. It's pretty awesome. So, thank you so much for being here with us, Gini.

Gini Grimsley:

Of course. Thanks for having me, guys.

Jenny Scott:

Absolutely. Dan, any last words that you want to share with our listeners today?

Dan Duran:

Oh man. I started trying to put a list together and it's just long. Gini was amazing. And so I'm just going to pull out, for me, what I think, of all the amazing things that Jenny talked about, that I want to remind the listeners of. And that is, it's not about you. When you meet that person, that person that's scared, maybe it took them five tries to walk in the front door of that gym, they pulled in the parking lot, they pulled out of the parking lot. They're intimidated. They're not quite sure if they're ready. They're not quite sure if they're in shape enough, which is not uncommon to hear. "Oh, I can't hire a trainer, because I'm not in good enough shape." They're scared. Just be quiet and listen, ask questions, be quiet. It's not about you, it's about them. Become, I love how you said, become an expert on them. So, that's my final words.

Jenny Scott:

Nice. Yeah, I would say I loved our whole conversation today, because there's so many people out there, naysayers, that say, "You can't make money in this business. You can't make a career out of it." You absolutely can, there's people who do it every day, but these are the people that go above and beyond. They learn about their clients, they learn all the systems, and they do what they need to do. They put the legwork in to get where they want to go. And if you're passionate about something, you'll do everything possible, which means that it's going to take a little work and effort on your end. So, that's what I encourage people to do. If this is something you want to do, go make it happen. It's not going to happen to you. Things don't happen to us, right? We absolutely have control and choices along the way. And speaking of, that's what I always tell you guys, go out there into the world, be fruitful, and make good choices. We'll be talking to you soon.