The Science of Sweat | Trainers Talking Truth

Listen to this Podcast Episode

Join Jenny and Dan for an engaging conversation with Doug Lynch, a fitness expert and founder of Zenkai Spots. In this episode, we'll dive into the concept of "the science of sweat" and explore the impact of sweat on athletic performance. As a brand that places a high value on sustainability, Doug will discuss Zenkai’s philosophy on how sustainable practices can intersect with athletic performance.

Podcast Introduction:

Welcome to Trainers Talking Truths. This is an ISSA podcast dedicated to exploring the fitness industry and uncovering the whys and hows of personal training. To do that, we'll talk directly to the industry experts and certified trainers. We'll dig into fitness programming, business tactics, nutrition, and more. You'll even hear from current training clients who offer insight from the other side. We've got the fitness industry covered, so turn up the volume and enjoy the drive.

Jenny Scott:

Hello, world. Welcome back for another ISSA podcast, Trainers Talking Truth. It's your co-host, Jenny Scott, here with my favorite podcast co-host, Dan the Man Duran. How are you today, Dan?

Dan Duran:

I am great, Jenny. I'm excited about learning something that I've never really learned about. Other than basic anatomy, physiology, or exercise science, talking about sweating, right? I know we all sweat. We all need to sweat. It's good for us, et cetera. I'm really interested to learn more from our guest today, and as we're going through the podcast, I'll pop in a little personal story about it and why I want to know so much about this topic, the scientist way.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah. It's all about sweat, and then we're going to talk a little bit about some apparel. You know me. I won't name-drop brands or anything, but I do love to look nice while going to the gym, and everybody here I think knows that I have a massive shoe collection. I'm talking about tennis shoes. I probably 160 pairs now of tennis shoes.

Dan Duran:

And that makes you drip.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah. You guys, Dan just learned this word drip, so if he throws it out quite a few times today, that's why. He was like yesterday years old when he learned the word drip.

Dan Duran:

Yeah. I'm feeling like big knowledge bonds today, yes.

Jenny Scott:

Yes. Dan's 16-year-old is doing him an educating and teaching him all the lingo and all the terms, so he's hip now. But yes, we have an amazing guest with us here today. Doug actually pursued his dream of playing in the NHL, and during his 11-year professional career, he won four championships. That's amazing. So he, you guys, got to hold up the real Stanley Cup, not the one that everybody walks around with these days. When I first heard that, I was like, "Wow. You won a hockey trophy."

People are like, "No, it's a cup."

Anyway, I digress.

After retiring from hockey, Doug, he started a company called DL Hockey, and he expanded it to four countries. It was contracted by the NHL. He was contracted to grow hockey in Asia, so super cool, spreading it all over the world. I think for most high-level athletes, Dan, they just want to raise awareness of their game and spread it, like golfers, basketball players. They just want to make people aware. So that's amazing. He later co-founded Sports Share Technologies Incorporated, and more recently co-founded Zenkai Sports LLC, which is an athletic brand we'll talk about today. They're all about redefining the future of performance apparel by harnessing the science of sweat and innovating at the intersection of sustainability and athletic performance, so I'm super excited to learn more about this. Welcome, Doug Lynch.

Doug Lynch:

Thank you very much, guys. Awesome readout there, Jenny. Really sounded like I did a bunch of stuff in my life. That was sweet.

How did you get started in fitness and hockey and to where you are now?

Jenny Scott:

Oh. You've done a thing or two. I think we can agree on that. Well, speaking of, Doug, tell us about your journey. How did you get started in fitness, hockey, all that stuff, and how did you get to where you're now?

Doug Lynch:

Yeah, no. Thank you. So I grew up in Vancouver, BC, Canada. Played hockey my whole life growing up, and at a point in some time, I just started it all for fun. My parents were incredible, put us into all the different sports, no pressure. As you get kind of older as an athlete, you realize you might be better at one sport, so I focused on ice hockey. Then, took that for as far as I could go, so I ended up playing 11 years professional in about seven, eight different teams in four countries. I ended up playing over 1000 games, and saw the world, won a bunch of championships, had a super fun time doing it, met friends all over the world. Then, I retired at 32, and I have a high school education, and what am I going to do with my life?

I've been a hockey player my entire life. It's what I've done and what put my heart and soul into, and then you grow up one day, and you're like, "You know what? I'm ready for my life after hockey." And so I was 32 years old, and what do you know best? Ice hockey. Went back to coaching, fell in love with kids, coaching, and the long-term athlete development model, how you take a six-year-old and build that career because you can't teach a six-year-old what you're trying to teach a sixteen-year-old, so really understand how kids work, how coaching works. So I started a coaching consulting company in Portland, Oregon. That was super fun, and then from there, a friend of mine built a rink in China.

He's like, "You want to come to China and run an ice hockey program?"

I'm like, "That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. What am I going to do with ice hockey in China?"

So we became really good friends, ended up convincing me to go, had just an amazing time, lived in Shenzhen mostly, but spent a lot of time in Shanghai and Beijing, and that was at the same time the NHL was sending over teams to play exhibition games leading into the 2022 Beijing Olympics. Just like you mentioned, Jenny, they wanted to expand what we say, like the line I always used to use in China is "Nobody plays bobsled. No one plays figure skating. No one plays biathlon," so going into the Winter Olympics, people play ice hockey. It's one of the few games that people play, so the government really want to bring some more attention to the sport, educate the masses, educate the kids. So I ended up spending two years all through Asia, teaching kids ice hockey, and it was the greatest time ever.

Jenny Scott:

That's so cool. Yeah, it's all about growing the game. And you're right, nobody does play bobsled. I don't own one.

Doug Lynch:

Yeah, let's go grab a couple pints and play bobsled on Friday night.

Dan Duran:

Isn't the saying, "I went to a fight, and a hockey game broke out"?

Doug Lynch:

It's definitely happened more than once that I witnessed. Yeah.

Dan Duran:

Yeah, yeah. You've witnessed. Never a part of it, right?

Doug Lynch:

No, no, no, no. That's other people.

Dan Duran:

Yeah. Those folks just can't get a handle on their emotions. I feel you, man. So what about the transition into your apparel company, Doug?

Doug Lynch:

So I was in—back after I left China. My companies were acquired over there, and that's how I became a founder of the Sport Chair Technology. It's a super cool online education system for kids. I was in Portland, ready for my next step. Then, of course, because Portland, every one of the kids, I taught, their mom or dad either worked for Intel or Nike. So I end up really getting this crash course on apparel, because they just became all my friends, the parents of the kids I was coaching. We'd go to the tournament together, get to know them, and really kind of started learning more about apparel. It was kind of interesting, Dan, because when I retired, I went vegan for a year. I was eating so much meat as an athlete, like three times a day for 14 years, whatever it was, and I kind of want to reset my system.

So I went vegan, cold turkey, which my body was not happy about, for a year. It was super hard. I love sushi, and I love eggs. So I'm now technically a pescatarian, but for a year, you guys, I went down that journey, and it really took me down this sustainable journey. I started watching all these Netflix documentaries and reading everything. So it's funny, Dan, because my journey ended up going through on for more food to then what's happening on our planet. Then, it kind of turned into textiles, and then at the same time, I'm working with all these people from Nike that I'm coaching their kids. I started asking them questions, and I got this whole education out of nowhere. I'm a lifelong learner, and it's something I was really passionate about, so then anyway, I got introduced to some of the highest people at Nike, which then ended up meeting my partner, Raj, who started Filium. We said, "We should go into business together," So it's a kind of crazy, convoluted, doesn't make any sense story.

Jenny Scott:

It all started with a rabbit hole on Netflix.

Doug Lynch:

Don't they all do that?

Jenny Scott:

Oh. It'll suck you in. It's endless.

Doug Lynch:

Well, and Jenny, you know what? Even before the rabbit hole of Netflix, we laughed about, I was fortunate enough to win some championships, and when you win a championship, there's reunions. I come back after 10 years with this reunion, and all my teammatew, not all of them, all my teammates, we put on a bunch of weight. Every year we come back, we joke each other, "I'm not going to be as fat as you next five years when we come back," so we started to joke with all my teammates. We're in a bunch of group chats together. I'm like, "You know what?" so that's what took me down to veganism, because I didn't want to be too fat on our next reunion.

Jenny Scott:

Oh my gosh, the ribbing. I can imagine. That's awesome.

How did the Science of Sweat come about and get incorporated into your clothing brand?

Jenny Scott:

So you had all these contacts with some really amazing companies, like Nike and some places, that it's hard not to get sucked into their biosphere, like head that way, but you kind of decided to branch off and go your own way. Where did this science of sweat come in? Can you tell us what that is, and how did you start to incorporate that into your clothing brand?

Doug Lynch:

Yeah. Well, and I'm sure you guys, not to date anybody here, but when I started playing sports, I just wore a cotton T-shirt underneath my hockey equipment, my lacrosse equipment. Dan, we talked about your son playing lacrosse. I just wore a cotton T-shirt, like that's what you wore back then. Then, Kevin Plank came out in 1999 and said, "Cotton's the enemy. Synthetics are the future." He said that, because you can't perform in cotton, so that was from now, fast-forward, 25 years or so. The whole world has gone synthetic. Then, Nike came out, and Nike's arguably one of the greatest marketing companies in the world next to an Apple, and they said, "Dry fit moisture wicking. That's the future."

Well, so then I started going down this rabbit hole. What does that really mean? Well, moisture wicking means pulling sweat off your skin into your shirt, so your shirt's soaking wet, but your skin's dry. I'm like, "Okay. Well, does that make sense?" So then I went down this rabbit hole of, it's called thermal regulation. Basically, just to dumb it down, and by the way, guys, I have a high school education, so look this up yourself. This is real stuff, but basically what happens when our core temperature rises, as we exert energy doing anything physical, basically we exert and we sweat. We sweat to cool down our inner organs, because if we don't, our organs get too hot, and that's what leads to heat stroke and heat failure, and you have to sit down. You get dizzy. You get lightheaded.

So basically, our sweating mechanism is to protect our inner organs, but the science behind that is when our sweat kind of comes on our skin and evaporates naturally, that chemical reaction is what cools our skin down. Then, you think, taking it back to moisture wicking, "Well, if I'm just pulling the sweat off my skin, not letting it evaporate naturally, you're actually robbing your body of that chemical reaction to cool you down," so you actually overheat faster and lose more energy. So wearing synthetics, which we know is derived from oil and plastic, it's not breathable. It traps in the heat, and you actually overheat faster, so it actually hurts your performance. But it probably is better than wearing a 100% cotton T-shirt. There's this weird middle juxtaposition.

So when I came in with my partner, we're like, "Wait a second. With our technology, repel water on both inside and outside the shirt, so as you wear our apparel, a thin layer of sweat stays on your skin and evaporates naturally." Then, again, the technical term is hydrophobic. Because water molecules are larger than air molecules, air can get through. So as we evaporate, air is coming through our fabric, but water's not penetrating it. It's the perfect middle ground between wearing a 100% cotton T-shirt or a synthetic shirt that's ruining the planet. We're the only ones in the world now have come out with an apparel line that doesn't sacrifice the planet, is not made of oil and plastic, but is a performance cotton. So anyway, that's kind of where we end up landing.

Dan Duran:

So I'm sure you've already thought of this, because clearly you're an entrepreneur and work alongside a lot of folks in those industries, but I'm an outdoors guy, backpacker, hunter, et cetera. What a market there too, because-

Doug Lynch:

Oh, Dan.

Dan Duran:

We layer everything when we're backpacking. We layer everything when we're hunting. I'm just thinking out loud

Doug Lynch:

Dan, if you know a guy, give him my number. Let's go do a deal.

Dan Duran:

Oh, man. That's a huge— Cabela's and Bass Pro Shop just kills it on that stuff. Anyway.

Doug Lynch:

Yeah, 100%. And to be honest, the reason I haven't gone there is because I'm a vegetarian or pescatarian, so I like animals, and I want them to be around, walking around. I'm also an entrepreneur, so if people want to go shoot animals, they need T-shirts too, I guess. Maybe it's more of a spiritual conversation in my head.

Dan Duran:

Yeah. Backpacking, ultra running. Those are some of the things I do.

Doug Lynch:

100%.

Dan Duran:

Where I'm thinking it would be just an awesome-

Doug Lynch:

100%.

Dan Duran:

Athletes.

Doug Lynch:

Absolutely.

Dan Duran:

Anyway, yeah.

Doug Lynch:

No. You're exactly right.

What is your brand’s philosophy on the intersection between sustainability and athletic performance?

Dan Duran:

You did mention, Doug, sustainability, the environment, and so forth. Can you talk just a little bit more about your brand's philosophy on the intersection between sustainability and athletic performance?

Doug Lynch:

Well, and I'm sure you guys know, being in the athletic world every single day, but I didn't know this, so I'm not surprised, but I didn't know synthetic apparel came from oil and plastic. I did not know that. I did not know that the textile industry is the second-largest polluter on the planet, next to oil and gas. I didn't know that either, so again, this education part of our company is like, every day I call up and do sales calls, I do podcasts, and I do interviews. I almost feel like we're an education company. We're educating the next generation on where their apparel comes from, what it’s actually made out of it. No different than you guys, and people want to know where their eggs come from, their meat comes from, and if the fish is sustainably caught.

Those questions, we weren't asking those questions 20 years ago. We just were just handed steak. We ate it. We were handed a T-shirt. We wore it, but now the next generation, which is so cool, is they're asking these questions. And so for us, Dan, it's like, why does your apparel have to hurt the planet? Every time you buy a shirt from one of those big brands, it uses all synthetic, it hurts the planet. It doesn't biodegrade. When it breaks down, it breaks down to micro plastics, which leach into the oceans. It's like there has to be a better solution than this, and unfortunately, like the whole world, with humanity, you have to go so far one way to then slowly start bringing it back this way. Fossil fuels, electric cars, all that kind of stuff.

Fast fashion is one of the things that's destroying the planet the most. It's over consumption. It's not good quality. It doesn't biodegrade, so that's the story that we're telling. It's hard to get above that noise, but right now you can buy one of our shirts, feel good about it. It's not hurting the planet. It's biodegradable. It's good for your body. Then, on the technology side, because it repels the water, people don't realize either, I didn't know, that sweat is odorless. It's the bacteria that's carried in our sweat. When that gets caught into the garment and dries, that's what smells. So again, because we repel water up, both inside and outside the shirt, you can wear the same shirt five, six, seven, ten times in a row, and there's no smell.

So now, again, you're talking about lowering your carbon footprint as a family, as a household. I mean, Jenny, we talked about it earlier. I work out four or five days a week, and I used to have to have four compression shorts, four shorts, four shirts, four pairs of socks. I'm doing laundry once a week, just for my athletic stuff. So again, for us, if you have an active household, young kids, husband, wife, whatever it is running around, if you can save them a couple of hours a month by doing less laundry, like what that does and then the monetary aspects, so for us, it's this holistic picture of a natural substance. You don't have to launder it, it helps with your performance, and we're brand new, so I need great people like you to help me tell this story.

Jenny Scott:

That's awesome. So first thing's first, Doug. What you just said about sweat not stinking, I tried to explain that to somebody a couple of weeks ago, and they almost exploded because they didn't get it, but it blew their mind. I was like, "No. Sweat is just like, it's water and salt, but there's bacteria on your skin, so in your armpits, there's different bacteria/ in your groin area, et cetera."

Doug Lynch:

Totally.

Jenny Scott:

Then, also your hormones can impact the smell of your sweat, because I said, "Oh. It was like hormone sweat."

They were like, "What are you even talking about?"

I was like, "Oh. You've experienced hormone sweat. When you smell somebody in a room, and you're like, 'Who is that?' and then you smell your shirt, and you're like, 'Oh, God. It's me.'"

Doug Lynch:

100%.

Jenny Scott:

So for the listeners out there, Doug sent us some samples of his clothing, and I picked up the shirt, and you guys know me, I love my drip, I love my different exercise clothes and stuff. I picked up the shirt. I was like, "Oh, man. This thing is so thick. What am I going to do with this? It feels like compression, but I don't know." I wore it. I coach beach volleyball. It was freezing here in Arizona a couple of weeks ago, so I wore it underneath my beach volleyball sweatshirt. I put it on. At first, I put it on. I was like, "Okay. This does not feel like compression. It doesn't move not one inch."

For those of you guys do wear compression, the worst possible thing that could happen outside of getting a hole in said compression gear is it moving when you are working out, because trying to put it back when it's wet is impossible. This stuff didn't move, and I told Doug this before we got on the podcast. I finished three hours worth of beach volleyball matches, and I sweat nobody's business. I came back, and I was like, "I don't feel sweaty. I don't feel wet," and guess what, guys? I did not stink. I'm one of those people that I'm just a stinky sweater, and so I did not smell the same way.

Doug Lynch:

Me too.

Jenny Scott:

I smelled my shirt, and it smelled normal. I was like, "What? This is amazing. This is amazing," so everything he is explaining about this technology, about the way that they put this material together, it makes sense. I think when you said that dry wicking is the reverse of what we want, I was waiting for a lightning bolt to come smite us, because that's what we've all been taught, right?

Doug Lynch:

I know.

Jenny Scott:

Everything out there is moisture wicking, dry wick, or whatever, dry sets, because that's the thing right now, but I think you're onto something, Doug. I think you're onto something.

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What role does technology play in the future of athletic performance leisure?

Jenny Scott:

So speaking of being onto something, what role do you think technology and things like what you guys have figured out will play in the future of athletic performance leisure?

Doug Lynch:

Well, it's such a great question, because what are we seeing now in all society? Everything is going back more natural, the way it was. Oh, weird. Just eat an apple and eat a banana is better than taking six pills from a bottle that has them all mashed together? So it's so ironic how humanity is, right? Well, what's the number one thing? Meditation, getting out in nature. What a novelty. We've been doing this for 1000s of years as humans, but because my grandpa's a great source, my dad was a professional lacrosse player, and he left the farm in Canada to go play lacrosse, and he'd go to the gym to work out to train for lacrosse.

Trying to explain that to my grandfather about, "What do you mean you have to go exercise? There's 400 hay bales out here. There's a tractor that needs to be towed. There's cows that need... You need to go work out in a gym? Just come to the farm. You'll be exhausted every single day." So this whole society we've had, which technology is incredible, is we've gotten away from being natural. Dan, you mentioned hiking and stuff earlier, just like going for a walk, hiking, walking to where you need to go. I can leave my car, do 10 errands now, and not get out of the driver's seat of my car, right? So we have to understand that the whole world's going back more natural.

It's funny, because we do photo shoots and we've got a bunch of professional athletes wearing our stuff, and we'll go to a photo shoot, Jenny and the athletes are rubbing their hand on our clothes because they're not used to wearing cotton. They're so used to wearing synthetic. It's funny for me now, being a part of this journey for so long, I wear a synthetic shirt and it's immediately itchy for me, but for 20 years I wore it and never complained once. I think technology is going to play a massive role, but it's ironic that it's bringing us back more natural. So it's the cotton, it's the linens, it's the wools, but again, remember with a technology like ours, has them basically activated in creating this new version of what a cotton T-shirt is.

Jenny Scott:

That's awesome. Yeah. It's so simple.

Dan Duran:

My head keeps going there. Backpacking, bike packing. That's a thing. So my dear friend does these three-week bike packing trips, and they take one pair of clothes, two pair of clothes. The fact that it doesn't hold the scent, we've got to get in there, buddy. Guys, we've got to.

Doug Lynch:

Dan, let's talk. We'll talk.

Dan Duran:

Yeah, yeah. Definitely. Definitely.

What role do you believe brands like yours can play in promoting sustainability and environmental awareness in the athletic industry?

Dan Duran:

So Doug, I love what you're saying about how we're coming back, right? And people are being made more aware, and we're coming back to eating real foods. We're coming back to sustainability. We're coming back to realizing the impact that we have on our environment. Clearly, your company is doing so with you leading the charge. Where do you see both the influence of your company and maybe the rest of commerce, I'm just going to call it, or the industries? Do you see that happening on a larger scale?

Doug Lynch:

Absolutely. In fact, Dan, I would say that it's going to be the barrier to entry here, and very, very soon. When you talk to people that just get that humanity, we're all together in this. We're all teammates, the whole planet together. We're all in the same place together, that if we're destroying the planet, we're destroying it for all of our kids and all the people that are coming after us. You start realizing that it's like, I know it sounds kind of a spiritual, like very big thing, but when you to distill it down of, "What can I do today?" and that's actually the basis. So it's a Japanese philosophy called Kaizen, and it's very famous. Toyota and Lexus use it, but basically I heard that one day. I'm like, "That's it." How do you get its continuous improvement of what Kaizen kind of encapsulates? So for me, I cut that word in half and flipped it to come up with-

Jenny Scott:

I know. I was going to say...

Doug Lynch:

Yeah. And for me, you guys, I mentioned earlier, being a lifelong learner, it's like how do I get better every day? I don't buy plastic. I just use this. I try to walk when I can or take a bike. It's just simple things for me every single day that I can do to get better every single day. I think, Dan, that the future is going to be people actually put human beings in the planet first, not profits, not this. Because people, I think, the next generation, they're going to see that, and they're like, "You know what? I'd rather shop here."

We all know that your vote is your money, right? Money is your vote, and if people start putting money towards sustainability and different things, it's going to start taking it away from the fast fashion and the different things. For us, Dan, we want to be a leader in there. Again, we're this big, right? We're not leading anybody yet, but we'd love to be that voice and that leader of that next generation that wants to know where their things are coming from. I think that's going to be the barrier to entry in a few years. You're going to have to, whether it's the inclusion and all of that stuff, if you're not just that all day, you're not going to survive.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, absolutely.

Dan Duran:

And Doug, before Jenny leads us down with another question, I'm the parent of the three of us. It sounds like you're planning kids, Jenny. I think you and I have been going back and forth.

Jenny Scott:

It's a hard pass for me.

Dan Duran:

A hard pass. But I have the opportunity to look at it through the eyes as a dad, not yet a granddad, but hopefully soon, and that does come, that is top of mind for me. Because I'm not going to be here, but my kid is, and hopefully my kids' kids, what's it going to be like? Because even in my years, I've seen so much evolution of how we do things in the environment and like you said, you can do everything without getting out of your car. You can shop from your phone, and it's on your doorstep 10 steps away a day later. I wonder, and we want what's best for our kids and for the generations that follow. So I definitely love that you're looking at it in a long term view like that, because as a parent, that is a filter that we use day in and day out.

Doug Lynch:

Yeah. Well, before you go, Jenny, for your question, there's one point on that. I was just talking to my friend yesterday. I was on a flight, and I don't remember this, but in the 30s and 40s, obviously they smoked on airplanes, like just smoked. I remember restaurants. I'd be sitting at a table, and someone smoking right next to me. I have nieces and nephews. Telling them that stuff now, they're like, "You lived in the dark ages." Now, our kids, Dan, and your kid gets older, and we have kids, and Jenny's babysitting our kids, Jenny, there's going to be a day when that generation is going, "You guys wore oil and plastic on your bodies? That's the dumbest thing we've ever heard. PFSAs in the ocean and micro plastic? What was wrong with you?" That's going to happen.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah. Well, now they look at us and say, "Wait, you used phones that were attached to the wall?"

Doug Lynch:

Oh my god.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah. They had a very long coily string, okay?

Dan Duran:

It was completely long, and you had to keep un-coiling it.

Jenny Scott:

It would always gets tangled on itself.

Dan Duran:

Yes.

Jenny Scott:

And now you have airpods. Get out of here,

Dan Duran:

You're shutting in the door for privacy, because you had one phone. If I'm talking to my girlfriend, I want to take it into another room. You're shutting the door for privacy. Then, you break the cord. Those are the good old days, man.

Jenny Scott:

Oh my goodness. No, I think this is super interesting. I think, so you guys, like you said, you're finding that you're almost an education company, because you're having to teach people or remind them like, "Hey, the sweat is normal. You're supposed to sweat. It's not normal to wipe your sweat away." In my yoga class is actually, I do warm ish yoga. It's not hot yoga. It's warm ish, and you're supposed to sweat, and so when people sit down and start wiping their face, the instructor doesn't get mad.

But she's like, "Just remember, sweat is supposed to be there. Let it sit on your skin if you're okay. If you need to wipe it or it's in your eyes, go for it, but if you can, let it stay on your skin." But it's almost like we need to retrain people to remind them that sweat is normal. The evaporation of that water off your skin is what cools your body, and it's supposed to happen, so I feel like it's not like you guys are taking on, I'm using air quotes, companies like Nike and the Adidas of the world, the Adidas of the world and stuff. But you have just something different to offer.

And you're absolutely right. People are going to speak with their feet. They're going to move to things that they believe in. They're going to move to things that are more sustainable or that, hey, once they wear this, they'll be like me, become a believer. At first, I felt it. I was like, "Oh. I don't know about this," but I put it on and I wore it for a couple of days, and I was like, "Okay, okay." You just have to experience it to believe it and understand how it works, and so I'm excited for you guys and everything that you're doing to grow.

Doug Lynch:

Thank you.

What type of new developments can we hope to see for your brand in the future?

Jenny Scott:

With your background with the NHL, hockey, and traveling all over the world, it sounds like you have some great contacts that can help get you get this out to the masses and to the people that would want to purchase it, so super cool. But what kind of exciting new developments can we think of or hope to see for your brand coming up in the future here?

Doug Lynch:

Well, I think, again, getting back to the Kaizen, Zenkai philosophy, getting better every single day, the shirt I'm wearing now hasn't come out yet. It's a polo. It's like 160 grams. Our original polo was 200 grams. To your point, Jenny, a little bit heavy, a little bit thick, and that sometimes is enough to turn off a high-level athlete because, again, we're used to wearing these paper thin synthetic shirts. So again, just getting a little bit better at that, getting a little better at supply chain. Talking about continuous improvement, with our team, the other day, our stuff is shipping in compostable bags. So you can put them with your banana peels and orange peels, but the sticker's not. So I'm like, "Guys, how do we get a compostable sticker?"

So that's the thing we're working on now. So it's like, as a small business owner, you guys know, it's just that you just never stop. You're always thinking. So for us, it's getting a little bit lighter fabrics, really playing around with some more natural, using modal now, which is made out of birchwood, so more natural fabrics. We want to expand our women's line. In fact, my wife gets mad at me, because our women's line is for athletes, not for the more sexier version, if that makes sense. It's for athletic wear. My wife's like, "Oh. I wish this stuff looked a little cool, a little more fashion."

So for us, it's like, I'm sick and tired of wearing black and white T-shirts too, so it's like get some more colors, some more fashion. But as a startup brand, you can't do 20 different colors. You have four. And so for us, more styles, more colors, more of that fashion, sexier looks instead it’s just the black performance piece, that'll be part of our big evolution. Then, doing deals with ISSA, we're super excited about. We're working with a bunch of gyms now in Canada and the United States, and just meeting good people on the way and helping them tell our story, and it's been an amazing ride.

Jenny Scott:

Love it. You just have to keep growing. And you're absolutely right though, it's not like you guys aren't adapting to what's out there, but you have to provide what people want. And I get it, little sports bra with the little criss-y crosses in the back and that kind of stuff, it's fashionable. It is what it is, but to your point earlier, it has to be sustainable. These are garments that you don't just wear a couple of times, and then the stitching comes out, and then you might as well just throw it away, right?

Doug Lynch:

Exactly.

Jenny Scott:

So you're going to invest a little bit more in these, but by no means your pricing is out of the realm of athletic wear. In fact, you're well under brands like Lululemon, Vuori, and stuff like that. Depending on who you ask, you might be providing a superior product.

Doug Lynch:

Yes. Thanks, Jenny

Jenny Scott:

You’re in the market. Yeah.

Doug Lynch:

Thank you so much.

How can listeners connect with you to learn more?

Dan Duran:

Well, this has been fascinating, Doug. I know we're going to want to have you on again, but in the interest of time and making sure that our listeners know how to find you, what is the best way for them to buy, follow, find, learn more about Zenkai, et cetera? Please share all the best ways right now.

Doug Lynch:

Yeah, no. Thank you. Go to Zenkaisports.com. Z-E-N-K-A-I sports with an s.com. Instagram, Zenkaisports. We're on TikTok, all those different social medias. We're going to be doing a deal with ISSA, so we'll have a discount go being sent out to your guys' universe that we're super excited about, but yeah. Website, Instagram, Facebook, all the normal spots. Zenkai Sports, and come say hi. I'm Doug. Write me a message. Come find me. I love people. I love telling our story, and really look forward. Dan, anytime you want me to come on and guest co-host, let me know.

Dan Duran:

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Doug Lynch:

I'm around.

Dan Duran:

Yeah. Yeah. Jenny needs some help. She's got to rely on just me, so we really loses out on that one.

Doug Lynch:

We'll have to do it. We'll have to find a time when all get in person. We'll do a little fun little content strategy in person one day.

Dan Duran:

There you go.

Jenny Scott:

Let's do it. I love it. Well, thank you again, Doug. Really good information. Love the brand. Love what you guys are doing. Love what you guys stand for. It's nice to know that people out there still stand for something, right? And it's not just about selling, selling, selling, and making a bajillion dollars, and then riding off into the sunset. You're trying to save the planet, because I think about that. You guys mentioned that with kids. I think about that with my nephew, who is almost 16 now, all the time. I'm like, "What are we leaving them with?"

Doug Lynch:

Exactly.

Jenny Scott:

Is there going to be anything left? And people like you are the reason why, yes, hopefully there will be a little something left for them.

Doug Lynch:

Awesome.

Jenny Scott:

So thank you for coming on and sharing this with us. Looking forward to setting up the promo code for everybody, so they can check out Zenkai Sports and all the gear that you guys have. But Dan, any last words for our listeners today?

Dan Duran:

Of course, Jenny. I always have something, and I am going to come back to Kaizen. I absolutely love that, continuous improvement. Obviously, it's built into the brand Zenkai, but consider it for your daily living, your activities, your profession, your family. In all aspects of your life. How can you make just a little bit of an improvement from day to day? I've heard it said, one percent better every day. And tie that into what we talked about today, is how do you make the world one percent better? Because somebody's going to inherit this, man. It's not just for you right now. It's got to last a long time, so how can you make the world just a little bit better every day?

Jenny Scott:

Yeah. I love that.

Doug Lynch:

Love it.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah. It reminds me to think outside of yourself, right? We can't be so pigeonholed into what we're doing and focused on ourselves. Think outside of your bubble, and what you do, what you buy, and the choices that we make every day, and we talk about choices all the time on our podcast, but the choices that we make have an impact on others, and they have an impact on this planet. So for some people, that might be too big of a concept to wrap our heads around, but if you just start the rabbit hole, just open the door to the rabbit hole, and then take yourself down that rabbit hole, whatever it looks like. You might find a lot of information and a lot of things that you do have an impact on the planet and on other people, more than you think, so that's all. Just explore. Start the rabbit hole.

Doug Lynch:

Well, and it's so nice talking to people like you guys, because then you realize you're not alone in this, in the sense of other people care about this too. And every day when I'm taking or cycling out, I'm sitting there for five minutes at Whole Foods. "Okay. What place does this go?" and I'm spending my time, there's 1000, 10,000, 1 million other people doing that as well, so that's sometimes a, "What? Just me?" I'm not buying plastic water bottles. How am I going to save the world? Well, there's another person down the street. Dan and Jenny, you're thinking the same way as I am, so sometimes it feels like you're not doing anything, but if we're all doing it together, it makes a big deal.

Jenny Scott:

Strength in numbers. I love it. I love it. Thank you so much again, Doug. This has been super fun. And guys, go out there, make good choices, but do all the things. Make the choices that make the most sense for you, but remember your impact with people. And thanks for listening. We hope you guys enjoy this one. Go out into the world, be fruitful, do all the things, and make good choices. We'll be talking to you soon.