Training the Older Adult | Trainers Talking Truths

Listen to this Podcast Episode

Jenny and Dan speak to Robert Linkul, owner and founder of “Training the Older Adult”. This company serves as a source of information for fitness professionals and the public to better understand aging and fitness. They chat about common misconceptions of training older adults and cover some of the best practices any trainer should take on when working with an older population.

Podcast Introduction:

Welcome to Trainers Talking Truths. This is an ISSA podcast dedicated to exploring the fitness industry and uncovering the whys and hows of personal training. To do that, we'll talk directly to the industry experts and certified trainers. We'll dig into fitness programming, business tactics, nutrition, and more. You'll even hear from current training clients who offer insight from the other side. We've got the fitness industry covered, so turn up the volume and enjoy the drive.

Episode Introduction:

In today's podcast, we chat with someone who's dedicated himself to training the older adult. So much so, that Robert Linkul has a small private training studio that caters only to this population. Dan and I get to learn about Robert's work in research and education with the NSCA, how he developed his passion for working with the aging adult, and how he's been able to maintain clientele for eight, 10, or even 12 years by creating effective, sustainable, and engaging exercise programming. Get ready to take some notes, and enjoy the show.

Jenny Scott:

Hello, world. Welcome back. Another ISSA podcast, Trainers Talking Truths. It's your co-host Jenny Scott, here with Dan, the man, Duran. How are you today, Dan?

Dan Duran:

Well, Jenny, I'm great. We are going to be discussing something that I resemble more and more, and that is training older adults. Now I don't know what the cutoff line is, I do know that I qualify for the AARP or whatever card discounts.

Jenny Scott:

Isn't that like 50 or something, now?

Dan Duran:

Yeah, our CEO brought it up in a meeting, Andrew did. He's like, "Yeah, I went ahead and got my card." I'm like, "Shoot, I'm going to start getting a discount, too." So I put in and got my card. I'm not sure if I qualified, but I'm really, really, really excited to learn more about training this demographic, this group, these folks that really, really, in my opinion, benefit the most from our expertise.

Jenny Scott:

Yes. Well, all I can say is, aging happens to everyone. It happens to everybody.

Dan Duran:

Oh, not just me.

Jenny Scott:

In fact, Dan, you at this very moment are the oldest you have ever been. Right now.

Dan Duran:

Is that supposed me feel better? Or worse?

Jenny Scott:

I mean, you can't stop it. Two things guaranteed in life, right? Death and taxes, and we'll put aging in there as well. Okay? So I'm super excited about talk about this too, because we always talk to new personal trainers, no matter what your age is when you're getting into fitness. But this is a demographic that is a large portion of the population of the world. So it's important, we can't neglect them just because you passed a certain age. You don't stop training, you don't get sent off to go wither and die. These people are still active, and there's a need for people to work with them, especially because there are so many of them.

So our guest today is hopefully going to give us some great insights on this because this is his jam right here. These are his people. So I'm super excited to have with us, Mr. Robert Linkul. Welcome, Robert.

Robert Linkul:

Hello, everybody. Thank you for having me. Appreciate you being here, and having me here to chat with all of you.

How did you get started in the fitness industry and to where you are now?

Jenny Scott:

Yes. And so you are the owner of the TOA Bunker, and you own trainingtheolderadult.com, and you have a personal training studio up in Northern California, where you live. So this is kind of all that you do, which is super cool. But can you tell us a little bit about how you got started in the industry, and how did you get to the Bunker, where you are now?

Robert Linkul:

Sure, absolutely. So I started, I was a kinesiology student at Sac State, and I was throwing the hammer. I was sponsored by Reebok. I was pursuing the Olympic Games, and I blew out my back. My back L4, L5, L5-S1, completely ruptured. Ended my hammer throwing career. I went in some other directions, I was working with some clients at the time that wanted to get into mountaineering, and wanted to do some other sports. So I started to pursue that a little bit.

And as I wrote about my rehab for my back and some of my other injuries, I published those. We sent them out to our clients, Sacramento Magazine picked them up, and next thing I knew I had a bunch of clients with lower back injuries. Then my hips started to go out. I end up getting hip replacements. I've had both my hips replaced. I had lung cancer, I had thyroid cancer. I've had a hernia repair, had carpal tunnel, and three different surgeries on my wrist. A whole slew of different things that have given me opportunities to basically see what it's kind of like to be an older adult.

And because of those experiences, and an obsessive mindset that wants to learn as much as I can about whatever is happening to either me or a client, I dove deep into that. And before I knew it, all the younger 30- and 40-year-old clients all sent me their parents and their grandparents, and my clients went from 30 and 40 to 70 and 80. And as we went through that, more and more trainers would reach out and say, "How do you this with the older pops? How do I do it, and how do I not hurt them? And how do I know what limitations to deal with?" And we kind of continued to answer those same questions over and over again, until we built a certification and built a website, and started to build ways to provide all those answers. And that brought us to today.

My wife and I run TOA, trainingtheolderadult.com.

Tell us about the TOA certification you created and what students learn in it.

Jenny Scott:

Oh, that's awesome. So you kind of fell into this naturally, just with all the things going on with you, you became the authority. And you've learned a lot along the way. You have several credentials, quite a bit of education in this, but I want to hear about the certification that you've created, real quick, before we move on. Can you tell us about the certification that you've created, and what students would learn in it?

Robert Linkul:

Absolutely. So the biggest issue with any limitation, disease, any ailment that's going to come about as we age, is losing muscle mass. And that verbiage is, the term is called sarcopenia. Sarcopenia isn't just muscle atrophy, it's muscle atrophy to a point where you can't perform or do what you used to do. This is why older people take small shuffling steps. If that was the right way to walk, we would all walk like that. 20-year-olds would walk, everybody would, right? But because they don't use that muscle pattern anymore, and they're not lifting weights, they take really small steps.

So to look at that as an overall and be like, how do we combat that? How do we combat sarcopenia? We have to learn what sarcopenia is. Its partner, osteopenia, which leads to osteoporosis. And then the big three, obesity. Osteo, sarco, obesity, are basically the three big issues that are going to be addressed in any older adult's life. How can we basically build programs and teach our students, other trainers, how to a address those three issues? So we start with a lot of education on those, and then we dive into our blueprint and what movement components we do every day. How do we program, how do we volume, reps and sets and loads and progressions and regressions, and exercises we call tweeners. If you're not quite ready to do an RDL and you're really good at a bridge, how do we tween that? How do you get between those two, and bridge that gap a little bit smaller?

So we show all of that, and when you go through, it's self-paced, it's 12 chapters. They're about 30 minutes each chapter. And after that you test out and you are now TOA certified, and you have our TOA website, which has about 1500 hours worth of content and library and exercises and everything, to help you on your way to work with your older pops. So it's a very involved, it's a constant on the grow program, we're adding new content to it every single week. And I just have a blast doing it.

Jenny Scott:

Love that. And as people who obviously work for an education company ourselves, we love telling people about the other education that's out there. So we will absolutely link that in our show notes if people want to check it out.

Robert Linkul:

Thank you. Thank you, thank you.

Tell us about your work with the NSCA and how you got started there.

Dan Duran:

And you know Robert, Jenny mentioned that you have a lot of education and certifications in this space. So I see you have an undergrad, a graduate degree, and also some certifications through NSCA, and that you were the 2012 Personal Trainer of the Year, through the NSCA. And it says you're a fellowship inductee with NSCA Personal Trainer Board of Directors. So you're a stakeholder on the board of directors. Very, very impressive.

Robert Linkul:

Thank you.

Dan Duran:

Can you tell us more about your work with the NSCA, and maybe that journey as well?

Robert Linkul:

Yeah, so the NSCA, the National Strength and Conditioning Association has always been very sport and strength coach heavy. And I love all the research that goes into the organization. Everybody that is pursuing a degree in kinesiology is going to submit their thesis and their final work to be published in the NSCA's Strength and Conditioning journals. So we get access to great content. And that's what I want. I'm not a researcher, I'm a practitioner. And so I want all this research, and I want to be able to read it. And I want to be able to talk, "Hey, this is the most efficient way, the safest way, the best way."

So because I was really obsessed with that, I was kind of drawn to this profession, and this particular organization. And as I kind of dove into it further, I'm like, "They have personal trainers, but they don't have a big focus on personal trainers. And personal trainers can use this content just as well as a strength coach can." So it became a mission of mine to work up the ranks, I became a state director and then a regional coordinator, and we ran events. And I've contributed to career development catalogs, and tons of online content, and presented at conferences over the last 15 years for the NSCA. And then I was asked to run for the board of directors. And I said, "If I'm going to do it, there's only one seat that I want. I don't want to be a member at large. I don't want to be in any other position other than the personal training position."

And when that came about in 2020, I ran for it and got it. And I'm in my second year, I have one more year after this, and then I could run for another three-year term. But our pursuit is really to help educate personal trainers in how they can use strength and conditioning tools with all their clients, of any age, but in particular with the older adult. We actually created a personal training grant, as well. We're in our third year of doing that with the NSCA, where they get our certification for free, and they get some funds for their study materials, and we kind of help them get certified and get started in the field.

Jenny Scott:

Very cool. Awesome organization. I love the journals that they release. I actually am a member, and I get most of them. I get the paper versions, because I love a good book.

Robert Linkul:

Oh, do you?

Jenny Scott:

Yeah. Phenomenal research. And I love that there's still people out there, and that field is growing so much, and there's still people out there. But I'm like you, I'm a practitioner, I don't necessarily want to do the research, but show it to me. I want to know it. Absolutely. I want to know what you guys are finding, and be able to apply it. And you get all of that from that material, which is amazing, that you're part of that.

Robert Linkul:

Thank you. Yeah, I love the organization. Good people, great education. I'm glad you're a member. That's awesome.

Is the over-50 population soon to be larger than the under-50 group?

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, absolutely. So when you're talking about working with older adults, we kind of mentioned it before, they're going to be a large majority of the population at some point. Didn't I hear, and tell me if I'm wrong, Robert, but within the next 10 years or 20 years or something, isn't it that the percentage of the population that's over 50 is going to be larger than the population that's under 50? Is that accurate-ish?

Robert Linkul:

I think that's pretty accurate. Basically saying that, we're living longer, and that the older adults are staying more active. But they're also experiencing more disease. And thanks to modern medicine and medical interventions, they're living longer, but maybe the quality of life is not as good as it could be. And that's where we come in is, it's never really too late, and there's definitely some people we get ahold of where we're like, the ship's sailed, but we can make the end of the cruise really nice. It's not going to be amazing. I'm not going to get people to get into body building shape, but we can definitely make people stronger and bring them back.

My dad's a very good example. He's been someone that I've been able to catalog our experiences with. He had five different diseases that he had about a 20% chance of surviving, each of them, a 20% chance. And he made it through each and every one of those. And when I got ahold of him, he could barely sit up out of bed, and I snuck into the hospital that he was in and brought in weights and bands, and started training him. And he was in a wheelchair after that, and we started lifting a little bit more, and then onto a walker and then onto a cane. And now, if you go to our Instagram, just yesterday, he's doing a loaded medley in here, inspired by the world of Strongman, picking up weights and carrying them and carrying them into new places, and setting them at different heights. And he calls himself Steel Legs. It's crazy, the progressions we've made.

And it's like, "If I can do that with a man who almost died, how many times," the average individual over 50 is what we'll consider an older adult. If I have to put a chronological age on it, biologically speaking, we're looking at somebody over the age of 35 that has at least two physical disabilities, and, or a disease that would kind of classify as an older adult from there. So at 36, when I had my hip replacements and lung cancer, technically I kind of fell into that category. There are individuals that need more attention, and that could definitely benefit more from resistance training than anybody else. And so that's where we come in and we say, "Hey, get people strong, and whatever they're pursuing after that, they are much more likely to achieve it if their body is strong. If they want to look better, get them strong, you're closer to looking better. If you want to move and feel better, the strength is the key."

And sarcopenia is the linchpin for all disease. Strength is the linchpin for all success. So strength training is definitely our biggest priority. Not to downplay stability and balance, and reaction time and coordination, all of these other things. But none of those improve unless you are strong. The foundation must be set.

Jenny Scott:

Absolutely. And to relate it back to what you were saying before, relating it to sports and training for athletes. That's what I do. Youth and college, I tell people all the time, they're like, "Oh, well why aren't we doing more biometrics or more power stuff?" I'm like, "If you can't move in general, if you're not strong in just the basic movement patterns, why am I going to have you speed it up? That stuff kind of comes after strength training."

So I absolutely agree, Robert, you have to be strong, first. You have to make sure your joints are able to handle the stress that you're about to put them on, before you start moving in all kinds of directions and jumping around, and all this kind of stuff. It seems cool, and that's what people want to do because, "Oh, I saw it on Instagram," or, "Oh, it sounds fun," but if you fall and break your hip while you're doing it, is it still fun, Susan?

Robert Linkul:

Yeah, do no harm. Right? That's step number one. We want to progressively make people better. And if you over progress them to the point where injury occurs, you just made that person worse, not better. Yep, I agree.

Dan Duran:

Yeah. Well, Jenny, the question that I had just kind of circling in my brain was answered by Robert, and I do qualify as an older adult.

Jenny Scott:

Oh, what is an older adult?

Dan Duran:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I am happy to say, it didn't happen until I was 50. So that, but I did meet it. There was two ways to get in the club, but I did. Yeah, I'm a card carrying member of that one, too.

Robert Linkul:

There you go.

What are some of the key points trainers should consider when working with older adults?

Dan Duran:

So, Robert, I was on your website and I see that that TOA, that your company has a philosophy that you follow, and I love it. "Treat every client as if they were a former athlete. Functionality and strength go hand in hand. And mobility leads to stability, which leads to ability." I absolutely love that. Can you share with our listeners a bit more about some of the key points that they want to be aware of, or considering, when they're working with older adults?

Robert Linkul:

Yeah, I mean, you kind of discussed it a bit with the description of our philosophies in there, but we have three movement patterns that we have to address. And this was kind of done through a SWOT analysis of a daily movement pattern, of just multiple people over the age of 50. The average individual during 16 hours of wake time, they were averaging a hundred hinges per day. This could be from picking up a toolbox, to hinging over to pick up their shoes. And then in most of those cases, the hinge was then accompanied by an addition of load. That load was then transferred somewhere else, and then either put down or replaced somewhere. So when we looked at that, we went, "Well, that's a hinge, that's some kind of pull towards you, and then a loaded carry. And then you either replace it, or press it up and put it in the closet, or wherever else."

So you're taking something, you're carrying it somewhere else, and then you're putting it back. And if we look at that movement pattern, that happens more other than general locomotion, moving about. Other than that, those are the most recognizable movement patterns that we do on a daily basis, so that's what I want to train people for life. I need them to hinge really well. I need them to be able to pull things toward them, carry them to a new location, and then replace them. And so if we address those three—hinge, row, and carry—if we address those three components with every workout. It doesn't mean it's the only things that we do, but those three are the ones that we want to do with every single workout. If I only get to see my client twice a week for an hour, out of 168 hours, he's got 166 to do everything wrong. I have two hours where I need to do the best that I can with them.

And so I have to nail those movement patterns. If I get them really efficient with that, and I'm educating as we're doing it, "Hey, this isn't just in this weight room, this is when you go out into real life." We will gradually make pretty significant gains with our clients, because we want them to get stronger via the hinge pattern so they can pick up and replace. The carrying pattern also includes a split stance, so they're improving their gait, their posture, their analysis of that as they go through. And then rowing, pushing, pressing, anything else where they're bringing weight towards them and then pushing it away. You've pretty much covered all your bases for daily life movement.

We'll kind of progress that to a level two, where we'll start to get up and down off the floor, up and down from stairs. Start to rotate, maybe even progress into some power base. And for power, for us, we're not leaving the ground, we're letting go of implements. And that's probably one of the best ways to help make your clients powerful. Let them throw things, slam it, toss it, vertical throws. It's fun. And it's a great way for them to be able to learn how to accelerate something, and not have to slow it down.

So those are kind of the nuts and bolts of the programming as we come in, and why we're doing what we do. At no point will I teach anyone anything where if they said, "Why are we doing that?" I don't have an answer. And that should go for any teacher out there. If anyone ever asks why, and they don't have an answer, stop learning from that person.

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Jenny Scott:

I agree. Oh, you are, you're blowing the doors right off...

Dan Duran:

I may have heard it.

Jenny Scott:

... the senior. What?

Dan Duran:

I may have heard somebody say that, Jenny.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, very true. I definitely agree with that. I agree with everything he's saying. And yes, throwing things is the best way to build power. I love it. I actually said that to my basketball players the other day, when we were throwing Dyna balls against the wall. I was like, "Just get, just throw it." It was great.

But I feel like you're blowing the doors wide open on senior training, because so many people think of the things that you said that you don't necessarily focus on. Like balancing, standing on one leg, "Let's go stand on this BOSU, John." We don't need to do that kind of stuff necessarily, all the time. But I'm looking at, like you guys can't see him of course, but behind him, he has kettlebells. I see a skier, a wall that I'm assuming you throw things against. So cables, you have a whole bunch of things behind you. Can you talk about maybe some of the, not necessarily specific exercises, because sometimes people get so hung up on specific exercises. You talked about movement patterns, which is great. What kind of influence do you use with people, or is the sky the limit? We don't need to limit older people, right?

Robert Linkul:

Exactly. Let me read these for you. These are the seven common practices that most people think about older adults.

Number one is, they should not lift heavy things. That picking up more than 30 pounds, which is some parameter that some doctor started somewhere, that anything over 30 pounds, they'll hurt their back or their hip picking them off the ground.

Number two is they should not press weights over their head. Pressing weights overhead causes injury.

Number three, they should perform most of their movements seated.

Number four is, they should not perform anything at high pace. So basically no power training.

Number five is that older adults require constant supervision. They can't exercise on their own.

Number six is, resistance training is harmful to those with arthritis, that they'll basically just cause constant flare-ups.

And number seven is that bodyweight training is enough to fight osteoporosis, and, or develop enough bone density.

So you can do yoga and Tai Chi, and you'll be fine. These are the seven most common misconceptions, what we call common practices, what most people will tell you. And they're all absolutely incorrect.

And so, the reason I wanted to start with that is, when you look at the implements that we train with, none of that is achieved with this equipment. Like, you are moving heavy loads through space. It's not guided, not to say anything wrong about machines, but machines are not mimicking real-life movement patterns. If people need to start there, that's fine, but your goal should be able to get away from those and get into the real-life movement patterns of having to manipulate load in every direction. Picking it up off the ground, pushing it away, pulling it towards you, pressing it over your head, pulling down from overhead. Turning, twisting, lunging, stepping, carrying, throwing. Anything else that you can replicate in real life.

These are all things that are done gardening, let alone in playing sport. So if we're going to look at older folks and be like, "What does every older adult..." Let's throw in another common practice. Everybody gardens, okay? So let's just throw that out there as another stereotype. But if that's true, if they're going to perform all those movement patterns, we should train them for that. Our Garden Strong program is our most successful program. We have more clients enroll in that every year than we do in any of the other ones.

We do Tennis Strong, Golf Strong, we have all these other sporting ones, the garden one. We have a hundred people that sign up for that one. Because everybody's like, "I don't want to hurt my back, I want to learn how to carry stuff."

Jenny Scott:

Yes.

Robert Linkul:

So we're training for real life. And the tools are whatever they can be. Get a sled, get kettlebells, get dumbbells, use landmines. You can use pivot points. We've got resistant bands. I use walking canes to help our clients with their step-ups. We use in core tricep extensions, we use a SkiErg, loaded carries. I have a flywheel, Plyo boxes, you name it. Hamstring curl, battling ropes, inertia waves. We use a little bit of everything. What we don't do is sit people on machines, tell them not to lift anything too heavy. Don't put it over your head, don't move too quick. All of that, excuse my language, it's bullshit.

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, I agree. And the thing is though, they're people too. These people, they may not be out clubbing every weekend and stuff, but they still want to have fun and enjoy what they're doing.

And to your point, they probably have hobbies and things that maybe they used to do, that they want to get back to. So yeah, I feel like people like to limit them, or think that they can only do water aerobics and Tai Chi and yoga, like you said. And that's it. But you're absolutely, I love this. You're blowing the doors right off of this.

Robert Linkul:

Do you know the number one recreational sport right now in America?

Jenny Scott:

Pickleball.

Robert Linkul:

Pickleball. Yeah, pickleball. Pickleball. And that's, the average age individual's over 50 that's participating in pickleball.

Jenny Scott:

And pickleball requires so much agility, it's not even funny.

Robert Linkul:

Yeah, I mean, you're not just moving forward, right?

Dan Duran:

Yeah.

Robert Linkul:

You're moving in all kinds of different directions, and reaching and playing all... So we have a large amount of our clientele that participates in that. They'll hike, they'll play golf, they'll tennis, all these other recreational things that are pretty common. You think, "How many people play golf?" And there's more people participating in pickleball right now. So as far as growth goes, there are probably more people golfing altogether, but as far as growth goes, more people are entering pickleball. That could be a part of a program right there.

Jenny Scott:

Oh my gosh, that's so fun.

Robert Linkul:

I'm glad you knew it. It's a very popular sport.

Jenny Scott:

One of my private clients plays pickleball and he's mid-40s, but they actually built a pickleball court in their backyard, because he loves it so much.

Robert Linkul:

That's cool.

Jenny Scott:

He actually has two on his property, one in the driveway and one in the backyard, because he loves it so much.

Robert Linkul:

Wow.

Dan Duran:

It used to be, the kind of a status thing is, I've got a tennis court up out behind the house. Now, it's a pickleball court, huh?

Jenny Scott:

Less space, Dan. Less space.

Dan Duran:

Okay. I like that. I like that.

How can trainers start growing their businesses in the older adult space?

Dan Duran:

Robert, being that, for all the reasons that you've shared, and we've talked about with the demographic or that population, the opportunities, the methodologies, philosophies. Can you share with our listeners how they might pursue specializing in training older adults? So what are some tips you would give them, be it education or marketing, referral, et cetera, to start growing their business in that space?

Robert Linkul:

Well, I would say the first thing is, learning to be empathetic I think, is probably one of the most important components. A lot of older adults will not trust younger trainers, because they'll have that mindset of, "What do you know about this? What do you know about being an old person?" And so I would be able to come in and be like, "You know what? I've had a hip replacement, I've had cancer," and I've had some things that gave me an opportunity to get my foot in the door with people. You can achieve the same thing by just saying, "I totally understand. I've read a lot about this. I was educated from a person who knows about this. They've built protocols for these things."

Ensuring them that you have done your homework, and you've researched the way to support them. And then if you don't know it saying, "I will find the right way to do this." So definitely don't make it up, or try to BS your way through it, but just say, "I'll find it. I don't know anything about training someone with arthritis in the wrist, but I will find you the right answers." Learn to be empathetic. Say, "I understand this is a life-altering thing, and I want to be an answer, not a problem." Okay? So that's the first part.

The second part is understanding, you're going to have to deal with limitations, with pretty much everybody. I've yet to meet anyone over the age of 35 that doesn't have something that bothers them. A bad back, a bad knee, let alone the aging body. Almost everybody has experienced some type of disease, or cancer, that has altered their life. So that's going to be something that you're going to have to be educated on, in that you're going to have to learn to work with not around. This is one of our favorite sayings. You don't work around injuries. You don't work around limitations. That's why those individuals typically are coming to you.

So if you're like, "I got a frozen shoulder," and you're like, "Cool, we'll just work around that." And they're like, "No, no. That's why I'm here, is my frozen shoulder." And you're like, "Okay, we need to learn how to work with this limitation. So what can we do? I can find many different angles of attack to work on building the posterior chain of the shoulder, and working on increasing my shoulder girdle strength that pulls the coracoid process back, that allows for overhead range of motion. And as I continue to work with landmines and pivot points, and do my pullovers and all my daily mobilities, I'll build to a point where you can eventually press your arm overhead, without load, and then eventually with load." And they go, "Cool, you've got a plan. You've got a process."

You need to learn those things. And it sounds like a lot, there's anatomy, there's biomechanics, and anything else that goes into this. That leads to the third one is, find a mentor, and find somebody that knows how to do this. Someone that's been there, they've done that, and they're still doing it. If it's me, that's awesome. If it's someone else, there's plenty of other great coaches out there. Find somebody that is doing what you want to do, and go and learn from them. I have yet to be told no when I ask them a question, or I ask for help. Almost every time they're like, "Yes." Or it's like, "Hey, I'm busy with this, but as soon as I'm done, I'll answer your question." Right? This is an industry of people that want to help the next generation. Don't be afraid to ask for help.

I would say those are the three things that I would really encourage you all to do, if this is the demographic that you want to work with. And I would argue that it's the most rewarding, because you're taking people, and it's awesome to increase by three inches on your vertical jump, and add 10 pounds to your bench press. But when you take someone that has trouble walking, and the fear of falling, and they start playing pickleball. There's no greater feeling when they come to you and they're in tears and they're like, "You've changed my life."

And I'm not trying to be overemotional about it, or to float my own boat, but I've had a lot of opportunities to work with people, and a lot of them have given me credit. And I always say, "I'll take 10% of the credit. It's easy for me to write programs and ask you to do it. You have to come and do it. So I'll take 10%. I built the program, you got to come do the work." And it's 90%, if not more, of their hard work and effort that gets them there. I'm just honored to be a part of it, and that's where I want all of you to be. This is such a rewarding field, because you literally are being in a position where you can help improve their quality of life, if not save their life or expand it. Or all three.

Jenny Scott:

Yes. That, I was going to ask, that was actually going to be my next question for you, Robert. Was, how rewarding is this for you? And even, take it back to your dad. That's tremendous. Not only did you give somebody years back on their life, and you helped him hopefully extend his life, but that's your dad. That's time that you now get with that person. So what else can you tell us about that? I love hearing success stories, and how it feels.

Robert Linkul:

I never thought, number one with him, it would happen. I mean, for 15 years you have someone... And I don't mean to make him feel bad, because I know he likes to listen to these things, but I've told him this before. For 15 years, I heard, "I'm really proud of you, son. The things that you do are great. You're helping all these people." And I always said, "Then why don't you do them? You're one of them." And he never got into it, until he fell and he broke his hip for a second time, and he couldn't walk anymore. And he's like, "I've got to do something." And I'm like, "I'm right here. Whenever you're ready, I'm here." And he goes, "Come to me."

And so I snuck into the hospital. I'm literally wearing all of my COVID gear, snuck in there, because they wouldn't let me bring in stuff. So I'm hiding rubber bands in my armpits, mini band in the other one, ankle weights around my pants. And so I snuck everything in there, and we did a little workout. And from that point on, he's just gotten better and better, every week. And that, like you said, there's no more important person in my life that I could have helped, other than my wife or my kids. And my dad is right there, in my circle of people that I love. I now have the opportunity to help other circles. And those people are just as important to those loved ones around them.

So I've got a tight group of people, I've got a tight group of clients. My average client, I think, is 16 years.

Jenny Scott:

Wow.

Robert Linkul:

I have 60 clients that I get to see on a weekly basis. I haven't taken a new client in two or three years, now. I've got a set number of people that I work with. I love it. And the education is the other side. I could try to make my 60 people 120, and affect 120, but if I can teach all the trainers what to do, then hopefully we can affect thousands, if not more, of people and really help them get better. So that's my dharma, my passion is to be able to, my purpose in life, is to be able to educate and help other people, help other people.

And if you are passionate and excited about this, I encourage you to dive in a hundred percent, because you're not going to find a more rewarding opportunity than helping improve somebody's quality of life, improving their abilities, saving their grandma, saving their mom, whatever it is. It's truly the most rewarding thing I've ever done.

Jenny Scott:

Dang. Talk about longevity. If you're having clients for 15, 16 years, that's amazing. That's so great. That speaks volumes to what you do, as well.

Robert Linkul:

Thank you. Yeah, they're great people and I've had the opportunity to work with them through all kinds of different limitations. And then we'll say, "Okay, we're through this. Let's find a new goal, a new pursuit," that could be sport or activity or it's like, "Now my shoulder hurts," and then we pursue that. So we're just always trying to find a new challenge for them, and a new something.

And once you kind of get to a point where it's like you're pretty damn strong everywhere, then we're trying to preserve that, and let them live the quality of life. "Their golden years," quote, unquote. I want you to travel to Greece, and not feel like you're going to fall stepping off the boat. I want you to go golf at Pebble Beach. I want you to go do all the things you've always wanted to do, the thing you worked 50 years to save all this money to go and do, and now you're going to do that for four years because you're too disabled to get on an airplane anymore? It's ridiculous, the way we look at aging and the way we just let it happen. And really at the heart of it all is sarcopenia, the loss of muscle mass. They just can't do it anymore.

You can't look at an old person and be like, "Stop taking small steps, start taking bigger ones." They don't have the strength to do it. They don't have the stability, they don't have the coordination to pull it off anymore. If you ask them to take bigger steps, they're going to fall. So how do we reverse engineer that? That's where you have to come back and be like, "We've got to start from the ground back up, and build you back to the point where you can." Because there are plenty of people out there who were 6'5" when they were 30, and there're 6'5" five at 70. And it's like, "What's the secret?" They never stop lifting weights.

Where can listeners find you to learn more?

Jenny Scott:

Yeah, love it. Now, speaking about mentors, let's take it back to that one. So it sounded like you were offering yourself up as a little mentor...

Robert Linkul:

Absolutely.

Jenny Scott:

... if I'm not mistaken.

Robert Linkul:

Absolutely.

Jenny Scott:

So where can our listeners find you, Robert?

Robert Linkul:

Yeah. Head over to trainingtheolderadult.com. They can check out the website there. You'll see our certification, TOA Select, TOA Apex is another course that we do. That's a 12-week program of exactly what I've done with my dad, with Joyce, with Linda, with everybody we feature on the website and on our Instagram. You'll be able to see it all on there. Go over to our YouTube, just look for my name. I've got 300 and something videos on there. We put out weekly content there, as well. I'm on Instagram, I'm on Facebook. Anything that I can do to help you feel more confident, more competent, in working with this profession, wherever it is, wherever you're at, working for someone else, doing your own thing, just getting started, wanting to improve your 10-year business. To start an older adult program inside your already gym, you name it, we are more than happy, more than happy to help.

Jenny Scott:

I love that. And again, your involvement with organizations like NSCA, and the research, or the things that you do with them. I think you'd be a phenomenal resource, even if you couldn't help them directly, you could direct them to the right things. So guys, reach out, for sure.

Robert Linkul:

Thank you.

Jenny Scott:

Yes. Well, thank you for being on here with us, Robert, and thank you for sharing us with us everything that you've been doing. You're making a huge impact and it is very, very clear. Do you have any last words or anything that maybe we didn't ask you, that you want to talk to our listeners about?

Robert Linkul:

Oh, I think my dharma speech is always the big one that I like to close with, so I think I got that point across. I guess I would say that when you're really passionate about something, it should just kind of flow out of you. And I hope that that's what listeners got from me today, is that you can see that I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I hope that that message comes clear, and I encourage, the reason I say that, I don't mean it to sound arrogant because I'm very happy that I found this. But I want you to find that. I want you to get to the point where you're like, "I'm doing exactly what I was meant to do."

And if you're working in a racket sport facility, training racquetball players and you're like, "I don't love this, but it's close," then find what you love to do. And whatever that is, pursue it. Knowing that you are here, listening to this podcast, means you're somewhere in the world of health and fitness, strength and fitness, something there. Now you got to find a way to funnel that a little bit more specific to what exactly you might want, and a little further. You can take something as specific... We have one facility that only trains clients for osteoporosis. That's all they do. One of our TOA affiliates, in Ohio, that's all he does. And so he took it down even a further step than what we do. He's like, "I'm only going to work with people that have bone density issues," and he's got 60 clients.

So I mean, you can do this at any area of expertise, any area of level, whatever your passion is. Go get it, man. Go do it. And if you don't know how to do it, find the person that can teach you, and just be passionate about it. And listening to podcasts like this, learning as much as you can, never stop learning. Our field is constantly evolving. There's new information right now, there's new information tomorrow, there's new the next day. It's only going to get better. And you've got to be on the forefront of it, okay? Because it's constantly evolving.

Jenny Scott:

Preach, Robert. Preach. Guys, I think we found our partner for the podcast.

Dan Duran:

Yeah.

Robert Linkul:

If you give me an open mic...

Jenny Scott:

We know now...

Dan Duran:

Yeah.

Robert Linkul:

If you give me an open mic, I'll keep going. I can rant forever.

Jenny Scott:

No, you're saying all the things that we say week after week after week, Robert. I couldn't agree with you more. This was awesome.

Robert Linkul:

Awesome. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate you.

Dan Duran:

Yeah, thank you again for joining us.

Jenny Scott:

Dan, any last words for our listeners today?

Dan Duran:

Thanks, Jenny. A couple of things. First of all, passion creates persuasion. And Robert is one of the most passionate people I have ever met.

Jenny Scott:

For sure.

Dan Duran:

It's really been a pleasure listening to you speak, and sharing your passion for training older adults. And the second thing, just a quick mention, a mentor and an old boss of mine used to do a presentation, which I have copied and give him full credit every time. Of this term of making your lifespan your play-span. And the older we get, me, myself, yes, I passed 50. And I find myself at a place where I tell myself, "There are things that I love to do, that I want to do, until the very last day." It's what I like, whether it's gardening, it could be hiking, whatever those things are, everybody has something that they love to do. And I want to be able to play for as long as I live.

So make your lifespan your play-span. And what Robert is sharing with us is exactly how you do that.

Jenny Scott:

Yes, I agree. And again, I applaud people like Robert, who love, who have found their niche. He's found the population that he's meant to impact, which is amazing. I feel like I've done the same with my sports training. But we have to find it, because not only will you put more effort and energy into it, you're going to wake up every day excited to go to work, and enjoy what you do. And you're going to be in this career, this field for a long, long time. There's a lot of people out there who say it can't be done, it absolutely can, and people like Robert are living proof of that.

So we appreciate everything that you've shared. But again, everybody ages, right? We're all going to get there. We're all going to get to the point where we need somebody too, but this population cannot be understated. We have to make sure that we're addressing these people, and then making sure that they feel welcomed in this space, and wanted in this space, which they absolutely are. Because they're wanted in our lives.

So thank you again, Robert, for being here with us. And you guys go out there, do what Robert... Because I couldn't have said it better. Go find the people that you are meant to help. Go find where you are meant to be in this industry. And if you're doing right now, ain't it? It's okay. But start looking, start putting out your feelers, get a mentor, find something else, but find that spot that really speaks to you. And then dig into it. Settle into it, put your butt in the sand and settle in, and then that's your spot. And then get really, really, really good at it. But go out there, do all the things you guys, and as always, make good choices. We'll be talking to you soon.